Fear

[ravendta]

It seems to me that you people are limiting God's abilities and God's grace.

Let's reduce my main problem - and we all agree it's a problem - to more simple terms:

I have a problem. I am afraid to put myself into situations with people I don't know, such as a new job or new church.

No problem is too big for God. He's made lame beggars walk and blind men see.

I've taken my problem to God and put in his hands.

I have faith that he'll respond in his perfect timing.

Now, you people come along (not all of you, but several) and tell me that he's not going to reply until I take the first step. As I've said, TAKING THE FIRST STEP IS MY PROBLEM.

So basically, you're saying God can't help me.

Geez, whatever happened to being able to "move a mountain" with faith, huh? I have faith that God will take care of me, and you're telling me he won't! Why are you people trying to kill my faith?

Eagle_Wings said it best:

I think it is really awful when Christians will make a fellow brother or sister feel spiritually weak for dealing with situations differently then they think it should be handled. We are called to strengthen and encourage one another, not to beat them down and make them feel worthless and helpless. The only time we are told to admonish one another is when we see a brother blatantly sinning, and guys, I can't say I see that here!

And now, I'm going to be blunt. THIS is what's wrong with Christian society today. THIS is why so many people hate Christians. THIS is why so many have biased views toward God. Because the majority (not all) of Christians are overly judgemental and harsh to those who are seeking help. There are better ways to show the love of Christ than telling someone that they're relying on a crutch or that their problems don't exist. There are better ways to be a witness for God than to KILL a person's hope!!

Remember that friend I mentioned earlier? The one I met here and has stopped coming here because of the way she was treated? Well guess what! I've been helping her through her rough times, and thanks to the grace of God, she's been off of drugs and stopped cutting herself for almost two months now. And it was because God allowed me to reach out to her with an understanding heart rather than a judgemental "it's all your fault" attitude that so many of you people have.

Let's turn it around for a second. Suppose one of YOU had a paralyzing fear of something. And suppose you came here and asked for advice, and the majority of what you got in response was "Well God's not going to help you, you have to do it yourself." How would YOU feel?

Guess what - if it was that easy, I'd have done it a LONG TIME AGO! What many of you are telling me to do is the equivalent of looking at an alcoholic and saying, "So just stop drinking."

To those of you who offered encouraging advice and hope for the future, I thank you. Unfortunately, we don't have a family doctor, and my family shares the views of many on this board. If I were to go, I'd get endless verbal abuse and alienation from my own family because they don't believe that depression and anxiety disorders exist and that problems like that are all in our head. Since I still live with my parents (blah) I won't be able to check out doctors without them knowing until I finally move out... which doesn't look like it's gonna be anytime soon.

One day, perhaps...

 

[superdave]

Singing Bush, I do not apperciate how you quoted other threads to attack my points. That is very uncalled for. I made it very clear, that God hasn't healed all of me, yet. I believe Inner Healing is a process and God can heal us- God healed broken minds all the time. So don't give me this, God cannot be our pharmacist. It sounds like you do not believe in the power of the Living God.

And my analogy is correct- these drugs are mind-altering pills and they only last until you take another one. Why would you want to live like that- when you can deal with the core issues in your heart and kill the root of the problem?

I work with Autistic people- so I know a little bit about Paxil and I know a little bit about social disorders, thank you. Autism is a geniune social disorder. Social Anxiety Disorder is a bunk-- it's a disorder for people who aren't willing to deal with their past- plain and simple. That sarcasm you used--was uncalled for also- you know nothing of my knowledge, do you?

And... Eagles_Wings

I am not being mean, cruel and uncaring or beating Raven's problems. You are right to the extent of "I don't know, because I don't know him"-- but reading his post, sounds ALOT like the stuff I have said in the past. So I can relate. I came from the get-go saying the truth in love... Would it be loving for me to let satan lie to him, or say Satan is lying? I think the last one is more correct- because- that's might not be what he wants to hear- but you have to accept it.

 

[ravendta]

Social Anxiety Disorder is a bunk-- it's a disorder for people who aren't willing to deal with their past- plain and simple.

Wow, could you try any harder to make me feel like trash?

 

[Singing Bush]

Singing Bush, I do not apperciate how you quoted other threads to attack my points. That is very uncalled for.

Heh, well it was a public post on the same public forum so I figured it was in the realm of public knowledge. If it's deemed inappropriate I'll gladly go back and edit it out.

I made it very clear, that God hasn't healed all of me, yet. I believe Inner Healing is a process and God can heal us- God healed broken minds all the time.

And may God continue you in your pursuit of Him. The point was, though, you yourself are still far from perfection and there are probably things you will always have to work at. Like all of us. Perhaps you believe if we only strive w/ God's help long enough and hard enough we can one day, through His grace, obtain perfection, but I do not.

So don't give me this, God cannot be our pharmacist. It sounds like you do not believe in the power of the Living God.

I did not say God cannot be our pharmacist and I am sorry if I came across as limiting His abilities. What I was trying to get at is it is foolish to look to Him to do so. There are thousands if not millions of Christians w/ various physical ailments who earnestly pray for a cure or at least a lessening of their suffering. Why doesn't God heal them? I personally believe it's not because He cannot but because He will not. His purpose for our lives isn't to make our earthly stays care and problem free. He will give us strength to get through the problems spiritually and emotionally, but many times in order to get through the problems physically we must step out and do it ourselves under His guidance.

To quickly use my reference to crutches again which no one seemed to like . We are all lame. Some physically. Some emotionally. Some mentally. All spiritually. We need help and for that we turn to our Great Physician, Christ. He can and will at times miraculously heal us of our problems, but most of times He'll simply provide a crutch. For some that's a close friend or family member to go to social situations w/ because you're too anxious to go alone. For others it's a destresser like a video game or exercise to deal with problems that bother us. And for some it's relying on the charity of your Christian brothers and sister to get you through tough times financially. It may be temporary or it may be permanent. The danger lies not in accepting the crutches God knows we need and has made available to us, but in loving the crutches more than the Physician Himself. I think some of you are so afraid of doing so you reject many of the tools God has given to get through life and so alienate the people who do have to rely on them.

And my analogy is correct- these drugs are mind-altering pills and they only last until you take another one. Why would you want to live like that- when you can deal with the core issues in your heart and kill the root of the problem?

Well here is our problem now isn't it? If someone w/ this problem could just hypothetically take care of the problems in their heart then sure, great, that solution is so much better than any medication. I do not think that is the solution here, however.

I work with Autistic people- so I know a little bit about Paxil and I know a little bit about social disorders, thank you.

I'm aware of this. You've shared this also in another post. And you deserve plenty of respect and praise for it brother!

Autism is a geniune social disorder. Social Anxiety Disorder is a bunk-- it's a disorder for people who aren't willing to deal with their past- plain and simple.

Having a little bit of experience w/ autistic children does not a liscensed medical practitioner make. I do not see how you can say that w/ such authority unless you'd like to share why you're qualified to make such a declaration about SAD?

That sarcasm you used--was uncalled for also- you know nothing of my knowledge, do you?

And you know nothing of Ravendta's problem aside from the little he's shared yet you insist on pontificating about it. I am sorry though if my sarcasm came off as rather caustic, it's my natural defense mechanism and I actually did edit my post some for content believe it or not...

By the way Ravendta, what the heck does your name even mean? It's impossible to remember how to spell!

 

[inrsoul]

Let's uphold everyone in prayer shall we? Bickering is pointless and unproductive. After all, we're all siblings...

 

[Eagle_Wings]

First off.. to Singing Bush. I'm not sure I'd agree with the term "crutch" though as it does give a negative picture to most. I agree that God gives us helpmates in many forms and we have to be careful not to rely on those helpmates instead of God.

I am not being mean, cruel and uncaring or beating Raven's problems. You are right to the extent of "I don't know, because I don't know him"-- but reading his post, sounds ALOT like the stuff I have said in the past.

Just because he sounds alot like you does not mean you know exactly where he is coming from. Just because you work with Autism does not mean you got the market cornered on Anxiety Disorders. Have you done extensive research to prove that there is no such thing as these Anxiety Disorders? Why don't you tell that to my Mom's friend who for many years suffered from Agoraphobia. Tell that to the gentleman in my church who deals with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. While you are at it tell me that my stuttering is in my head and if I just trusted God and had enough faith I wouldn't struggle with it anymore. And I will tell you who has the line of bunk now. If you consider that line you spouted about Anxiety Disorder being an excuse for people who can't or won't deal with their past caring and sensitive, then I would hate to see what you consider uncaring and insensitive.

 

[Eagle_Wings]

Let's uphold everyone in prayer shall we? Bickering is pointless and unproductive. After all, we're all siblings...

Don't all siblings bicker? Although you are right, bickering is unproductive.

 

[ravendta]

To those who've come to my defense, meaning that you agree it's POSSIBLE that I may have an anxiety disorder, thank you. To those who've disagreed in a civilized fashion, thank you for sharing your views - I do like to hear everyone's opinion. To superdave - all I can ask is that you do not reply to this thread anymore. You're entitled to your opinion, just as anyone else is, but that doesn't give you the right to make me feel like I'm just making all of this up for attention or something.

As for my name (and I hesitate to explain because many will frown upon it) it is meant to read as Raven (as in the bird) with a DTA at the end. It's a handle I've been going by for years - my comcast, hotmail, yahoo accounts all use this name. My weblog addy uses this name. And on just about every forum that I'm a member of on the web, I use this name.

The explanation? Well, to make a long story short, I've been pretty much been forced into the role of a "misunderstood loner" all my life. Raven is the name of a wrestler from WCW who's character was based upon a similar principal (back then, anyway). It's also a pretty cool bird. DTA stands for Don't Trust Anybody. That, I got from Stone Cold Steve Austin on WWF. To anyone who watches wrestling - no, I'm not an Austin fan. Never have been, never will be - I believe that he is the main reason that wrestling has declined from telling stories of heroic triumph of good over evil to being nothing more than a men's soap opera. Anyway, I don't like Austin - but the Don't Trust Anybody phrase kinda became my mantra going through school. I had no choice but to think that way - and yes, I still think that way today.

I'm sure some of you are going to jump all over this as being the cause of my problem, but it isn't. My DTA attitude was developed as a RESULT of my problems.

I just wrote like three big paragraphs explaining why, but I know I'm gonna get attacked for my feelings anyway, so I'm not going to bother. Have a ball, people.

 

[waterbear]

I disagree that one isn't fully in control of oneself. However it is tricky to fully understand what one truly wants in life. Introspection may remove the discrepancy between one's actions and one's ideals (which is discontent).

I'm confident you have the power to handle this discrepancy without medication, if that is your will. Sometimes though it's remarkably difficult to fully understand what is our will (and you doubtless know your will better than I know your will).

As for getting a job, that's tricky without contacts: Applying everywhere will help, but it definately involves a lot of rejection. Handling rejection might be easier if you consider why it is that rejection is harmful (does it really matter what some strange whose ideals you have no idea of rejects you?) - but I have some issues with this myself. You could always take consolidation that the person who got the job probably got it by virtue of an insider rather than 'merit'.

 

[catch22]

Obviously I don't understand the full extent of this but maybe this advice will help nonetheless. I would suggest setting small weekly goals (Whatever you know you can manage but may be a little uncomfortable) and then as you said wait on God's healing. I think something like going to the supermarket or maybe going through a drive-through would be a good start. There's people, but your interaction is limited and not subject to rejection...unless they're out of beef at McDonald's, in which case we're all doomed.

I never even liked pain killers, so my view of medicines may be a tad bit off to some of you.

 

[superdave]

Raven man,
I am not trying to make you feel like trash. I know what you are saying- because I acted that way. I say things LIKE that all the time. I know where you are coming from- because I was there wrote the book, got the t-shirt- hung out there frequently. All I am trying to tell you is to believe in yourself man... I think that's the problem. I could be wrong, but ok. I know who you are- becuase you sound like me. Maybe you aren't- and for that I am sorry. If it made it seem like I was coming down on you man- I am not. I apologize if it seems like. But I am not apologizing for what I said, because it's truth. I know because I got mad about like you did- when somebody said it to me. But when I think about it. The problem lies in us. Not anyone else... that's all I am trying to convey to you. I am giving you some fundamental truth.

As for the other members, I don't know what to say. You guys are something else... ... I truly think I am speaking truth and speaking it in love.

So I apologize to everyone... whatever.

Dave.

 

[Singing Bush]

I'm curious Ravendta. I looked over your profile and glanced over your blog and for some reason the question occured to me, "have you always been this, for lack of a better word, shy around people?" Even in early elementary school? Or was it more milder then and then magnified by the way some people in your past have treated you? I realize that's kind of a personal question so you don't need to feel compelled to answer, but as I said, I'm curious.

Oh, and while I've never been a huge WWF/NWO/all that stuff fan, some of my friends in high school were early on. And I once unintentionally DDTed a friend into a car. Freak accident I swear.

 

[ravendta]

I looked over your profile and glanced over your blog and for some reason the question occured to me, "have you always been this, for lack of a better word, shy around people?" Even in early elementary school? Or was it more milder then and then magnified by the way some people in your past have treated you?

I'd have to say I've always been quiet shy. I dunno if it was worse back when I was little or not. I remember crying when my mother first took me to Kindergarten because I didn't want to play with the other kids. But once I realized I had no choice, I tried to make the most of the situation. I certainly have never been outgoing as far as meeting people goes, always been more comfortable keeping to myself and my own little world. That's not to say that I never WANTED friends, but I've always been terrified of rejection. In the end though, school would only serve to amplify that fear ten million times over.

 

[catch22]

I have a question....what are you good at, or what do you like to do? You can use those things to build up confidence in yourself. Work on developing a can-do attitude.

 

[ravendta]

I don't know if I'd call myself good at either, but my two main interests are writing and playing guitar. Starting a career in either would be extremely difficult in our society, but I'm trying for a writing career anyway. I actually sent a manuscript to a publisher a little over a year ago, and I got a rejection notice in August - oddly enough, one week before I was laid off from my job. The main reason I took the last five months off from work instead of looking for a new job (besides the fact that I'd saved up enough money to last me through and that I'm terrified) is that I wanted to focus all my energy into getting my writing career off the ground. At first I was considering self-publishing but I don't really have the resources or money to open my own business - which is essentially what self-publishing is. So I instead hired a professional editor to go over my manuscript and edit it for me. I got that back the day after Thanksgiving and I've been working on implementing his edits ever since. While I was waiting for him to complete the editing project, I started writing a new book - which I'm about 250 pages into (kinda got a little writers block going on now though ).

As for guitar, I've been teaching myself how to play for the last four years. I bought my first guitar from my nephew in 2000. I really don't consider myself to be all that good, although my sister wants me to play in her church band. THAT would be a major leap of confidence for me - to try to play music with other people when I've never taken a lesson in my life. At the same time, I guess you could say I'm being kind of stubborn in that aspect, because I don't want to take lessons. I want to be able to say that I learned it all on my own (although, truth be told, my brother has been giving me quite a bit of coaching).

I know I didn't mention this above, but I also love video-editing. Several years ago I bought an Imac specifically for video editing purposes. I just take my home movies and put music (usually video game music - it works the best) to them. I cut the clips up and organize them so that it looks more like a movie than a home video. My family seems to think I'm really good at it - but starting a career in that type of thing is also much easier said than done.

I also love video games and music (just about anything except rap, club, and country).

And I think thats about it...

 

[catch22]

Well thats a great base to work from! Now maybe this is just me, but if you like writing.....and you like editing (as do I on both counts)....then have you ever considered trying your hand at being a filmmaker? I mean if you have stories (which you clearly do) and you have the means to make them visually (which I assume you do based on what you said previously), and you have the desire to tell your stories, then I say go for it! What I've discovered in my own personal experience is that a lack of self confidence often comes from a lack of a sense of purpose. And plus some of the most successful directors have been totally shy. George Lucas for instance. He's nototrious for only offering "faster and more intense" for his direction. He's a billionaire.

 

[ravendta]

Well, no more worries about this thread, people. No more worries about any other threads I've made, for that matter. I'm done with christianforums.com. I can't explain why, because apparently that would mean re-breaking the rule I've already broken.

But I will say this: For a "christian" community, this site does a great job of making people feel unwelcome.

 

[catch22]

What the? I know you probably won't be reading this anyway, but in case you didn't notice everyone in this thread (whether you agree with their advice and methods or not) was trying to help you. You criticize us for being judgemental yet you're judging all of us at the same time.

 

[Singing Bush]

What the? I know you probably won't be reading this anyway, but in case you didn't notice everyone in this thread (whether you agree with their advice and methods or not) was trying to help you. You criticize us for being judgemental yet you're judging all of us at the same time.

Yeah Ravendta, this'll probably be taken completely in the wrong way, but you seem to have somewhat of a vicitmization complex. Even those who may have not said things in the way you wished to hear them were only trying to do so to help. Perhaps some other reasons too, but I think we're all sincere in our offers of aid. Sorry to see you go man.

 

[superdave]

I know you don't want me to post- and you prob. won't read this anyway... But, sincerly I did not mean to offend you. I feel really bad if I did. Man, I wanted to help you- and I am praying that you get pass all the stuff that's bothering you, man! We at CF care for our fellow members and we love everyone... faults and all. This is the last judgemental place in the world... I love all of you guys!!!! And I know ya'll love me the same! That's awesome, their is no place on the web I'd rather be! I have been on bad forums, where the members are cruel and love to tear each other down for fun. Well--this forum is unique we love people and we love to take to care of people-even though we do not know each other in real life!

Sorry to hear that you are leaving... hope you do well in life, and your sucessful.