Fear of Losing Salvation

Guojing · Jun 6, 2020

HARK! said:
The mixed multitude, who came from the nations, gentiles, goyim, pagans, whatever you wish to call them, entered covenant at Sinai, and became every bit a part of Israel as the blood lineage of Israel. The prophets were well aware of this.

Israel didn't fall.

Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

If Israel has fallen to the Pagans, gentiles, goyim, nations, whatever you want to call them; we are doomed.

I have referred you to Romans 11 already, but for the sake of learning

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

HARK! · Jun 6, 2020

Let's make this clear.

Guojing said:
I have referred you to Romans 11 already, but for the sake of learning

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Here is how this verse reads from a literal translation:

(CLV) Ro 11:11
I am saying, then, Do they not trip that they should be falling? May it not be coming to that! But in their offense is salvation to the nations, to provoke them to jealousy.

Nothing about Israel falling here. in fact, the opposite.

Guojing said:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Again literal:

(CLV) Ro 11:25
For I am not willing for you to be |ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering.

Compliment of the nations entering? Entering what? The covenant with Israel; like they did at Sanai?

Guojing said:
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

(CLV) Ro 11:26
And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob.

(CLV) Ro 11:27
And this is My covenant with them Whenever I should be eliminating their sins.

What is sin? Sin is transgression of the law.

(CLV) Ro 11:28
As to the evangel, indeed, they are enemies because of you, yet, as to choice, they are beloved because of the fathers.

Because those in Messiah are repentant. This means obedient. Israel was carried of into captivity long before Messiah was born; and Messiah was commissioned only for the lost sheep of Israel.

That is us. The ones who enter YHWH's covenant with Israel.

(CLV) Ro 11:29
For unregretted are the graces and the calling of God.

(CLV) Ro 11:30
For even as you once were stubborn toward God, yet now were shown mercy at their stubbornness,

Guojing · Jun 6, 2020

HARK! said:
Let's make this clear.

Here is how this verse reads from a literal translation:

(CLV) Ro 11:11
I am saying, then, Do they not trip that they should be falling? May it not be coming to that! But in their offense is salvation to the nations, to provoke them to jealousy.

Nothing about Israel falling here. in fact, the opposite.

Again literal:

(CLV) Ro 11:25
For I am not willing for you to be |ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering.

Compliment of the nations entering? Entering what? The covenant with Israel; like they did at Sanai?

(CLV) Ro 11:26
And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob.

(CLV) Ro 11:27
And this is My covenant with them Whenever I should be eliminating their sins.

What is sin? Sin is transgression of the law.

(CLV) Ro 11:28
As to the evangel, indeed, they are enemies because of you, yet, as to choice, they are beloved because of the fathers.

Because those in Messiah are repentant. This means obedient. Israel was carried of into captivity long before Messiah was born; and Messiah was commissioned only for the lost sheep of Israel.

That is us. The ones who enter YHWH's covenant with Israel.

(CLV) Ro 11:29
For unregretted are the graces and the calling of God.

(CLV) Ro 11:30
For even as you once were stubborn toward God, yet now were shown mercy at their stubbornness,

So you rather use a version other than the KJV to support your doctrine? Alright then.

HARK! · Jun 7, 2020

Guojing said:
So you rather use a version other than the KJV to support your doctrine? Alright then.

I like to use a literal translation to help me interpret the manuscripts. I try to avoid dogma.

BobRyan · Jun 7, 2020

Not from Romans 11.
Not from 1 Cor 6
Not from Matt 18
Not from Matt 13
Not from John 15
Not from Matt 7
Not from 1 Cor 9

Guojing said:
Most of the books you quoted are not from Romans to Philemon.

These are

Not from Romans 11.
Not from 1 Cor 6
..
Not from 1 Cor 9

The ones in the middle are the teaching of Christ Himself and they agree with the Romans and 1 Cor chapters listed.

Not from Matt 18
Not from Matt 13
Not from John 15
Not from Matt 7

Guojing said:
Romans 11 was about Israel's fall leading to the salvation of Gentiles.

It was specifically addressed "to you" who are gentiles. Telling the gentile Christian "to fear for if God did not spare them - He may not spare you either... to you God's kindness IF you continue in his

Rom 11
9 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Guojing said:
1 Cor 9, I suppose you are talking about the final verse. Paul was not talking about losing salvation .

Yes he is - (unless you think there is salvation apart from the gospel)

1 Cor 9
23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached the gospel to others, I myself should become disqualified from it.

Blade · Jun 7, 2020

Well where ever the word is.. Satan comes right away to steal it. So.. he puts fear in those just saved. Some praise God still drink milk. Don't know, not secure in Christ. In the Fathers hands

I read how GOD wanted Israel to take His word to the world. They failed. So we read "He came to his own creation, yet his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God." All is all and thats all all means.

Israel right now.. is not severing .. loving..obeying God. You don't love serve GOD and toss out Yeshua. NOT to offend. But.. since its always there. A name is used.. that is not written in Jewish history. It was made up. Sorry

HARK! · Jun 7, 2020

Blade said:
Well where ever the word is.. Satan comes right away to steal it. So.. he puts fear in those just saved. Some praise God still drink milk. Don't know, not secure in Christ. In the Fathers hands

I read how GOD wanted Israel to take His word to the world. They failed. So we read "He came to his own creation, yet his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God." All is all and thats all all means.

Israel right now.. is not severing .. loving..obeying God. You don't love serve GOD and toss out Yeshua. NOT to offend. But.. since its always there. A name is used.. that is not written in Jewish history. It was made up. Sorry

What you don't seem to understand is that those who are in Messiah, are Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

GPendu · Jun 11, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

If Israel has fallen to the Pagans, gentiles, goyim, nations, whatever you want to call them; we are doomed.

Israel stumbled at the rock of stumbling, the rock of offense. And the gentiles were grafted into the Vine. And He made a new Convenant with them. This new convenant includes the Jew and the gentile, to form new Israel or spiritual Israel. So, true, Israel never fell to "the Pagans, gentiles, goyim, nations, whatever you want to call them,"

GPendu · Jun 11, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) 1Jn 4:18
Fear is not in love, but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love.

When I was a little boy, my dad was outside raking leaves while my sister and I were playing. One of my sister's friends showed up, just as my dad asked us if we would like to help him rake leaves. My sister immediately asked "do we have to?" My dad said, "no, it's just that I'm out here doing this by myself; and I would like help." My sister said, "well then I'm going of to go play with my friends." I immediately said, "Ill help you dad." My sister was still standing there when my dad said, "thank you; here's a quarter." (That was quite a bit of money back then; and we didn't have much.) My sister's eyes lit up. She was driven by money. She said, " I didn't know that there was money involved; I'll help!" He handed her a rake. She asked, "aren't you going to give me a quarter?" My dad said, "No, I didn't give your brother a quarter for raking leaves. I gave him a quarter because he loves me; and he wants to help me."

My dad was an Atheist; and he wasn't even my blood father. He was my stepdad; but he still understood how a father wants to be loved. This is how I love people who I see stranded on the side of the road. I don't help them for a reward. I help them because my heart tells me to.

I'm obedient to YHWH's perfect law, not for what I think I might get out of him. That seems like a burden to me. It also seems insincere. I'm obedient out of love for him. It's easy.

Let his will be done regarding any reward he might have for me. His will is out of my control; and his will, will be done. Worrying about it will change nothing. If I lay down my life in love for him, with no care of what he will give me in return; then there is nothing to fear. He has already given me everything I have. Anything more is already more than I deserve.

Quite a testimony!

Fear of Losing Salvation

Guojing

Well-Known Member

More options

HARK!

שמע

More options

Guojing

Well-Known Member

More options

HARK!

שמע

More options

BobRyan

Junior Member

More options

Blade

Veteran

More options

HARK!

שמע

More options

GPendu

Member

More options

GPendu

Member

More options

Similar threads

Fear of Losing Salvation

Well-Known Member

שמע

Well-Known Member

שמע

Junior Member

Veteran

שמע

Member

Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency