Fear of Losing Salvation

[HARK!]

(CLV) 1Jn 4:18
Fear is not in love, but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love.

When I was a little boy, my dad was outside raking leaves while my sister and I were playing. One of my sister's friends showed up, just as my dad asked us if we would like to help him rake leaves. My sister immediately asked "do we have to?" My dad said, "no, it's just that I'm out here doing this by myself; and I would like help." My sister said, "well then I'm going of to go play with my friends." I immediately said, "Ill help you dad." My sister was still standing there when my dad said, "thank you; here's a quarter." (That was quite a bit of money back then; and we didn't have much.) My sister's eyes lit up. She was driven by money. She said, " I didn't know that there was money involved; I'll help!" He handed her a rake. She asked, "aren't you going to give me a quarter?" My dad said, "No, I didn't give your brother a quarter for raking leaves. I gave him a quarter because he loves me; and he wants to help me."

My dad was an Atheist; and he wasn't even my blood father. He was my stepdad; but he still understood how a father wants to be loved. This is how I love people who I see stranded on the side of the road. I don't help them for a reward. I help them because my heart tells me to.

I'm obedient to YHWH's perfect law, not for what I think I might get out of him. That seems like a burden to me. It also seems insincere. I'm obedient out of love for him. It's easy.

Let his will be done regarding any reward he might have for me. His will is out of my control; and his will, will be done. Worrying about it will change nothing. If I lay down my life in love for him, with no care of what he will give me in return; then there is nothing to fear. He has already given me everything I have. Anything more is already more than I deserve.

 

[public hermit]

How does this helps someone who has a fear of losing their salvation? Are you saying that if you are obedient and God doesn't save you, then you're okay with that? Or, are you saying that God only saves those who obey out of love and not those who obey looking to be saved? Can someone really obey out of love with no intention of being saved? I apologize for my confusion, just trying to understand.

 

[HARK!]

How does this helps someone who has a fear of losing their salvation?

I would pray that it would help them to cast out the fear, and to walk in love; but this thread was not directed toward those who are in fear.

Are you saying that if you are obedient and God doesn't save you, then you're okay with that?

Yes. Again, I appreciate all that he has done for me. There is no way that I can repay him. he has already given me far more than I deserve.

Or, are you saying that God only saves those who obey out of love and not those who obey looking to be saved?

YHWH saves who he will. I wouldn't suggest for a moment that I would know how he would choose on an individual basis.

Can someone really obey out of love with no intention of being saved?

Yes. If we genuinely love him with all our heart, all our mind, and all that is utterly us, we will lay down our lives for him, with no regard for ourselves. Look at the example of love that Yahshua showed for our father, and for us.

He calls us to follow his example.

 

[public hermit]

but this thread was not directed toward those who are in fear.

I appreciate your clarifying for me. I misunderstood. I thought your title was aimed at those who fear losing their salvation.

 

[Guojing]

(CLV) 1Jn 4:18
Fear is not in love, but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love.

When I was a little boy, my dad was outside raking leaves while my sister and I were playing. One of my sister's friends showed up, just as my dad asked us if we would like to help him rake leaves. My sister immediately asked "do we have to?" My dad said, "no, it's just that I'm out here doing this by myself; and I would like help." My sister said, "well then I'm going of to go play with my friends." I immediately said, "Ill help you dad." My sister was still standing there when my dad said, "thank you; here's a quarter." (That was quite a bit of money back then; and we didn't have much.) My sister's eyes lit up. She was driven by money. She said, " I didn't know that there was money involved; I'll help!" He handed her a rake. She asked, "aren't you going to give me a quarter?" My dad said, "No, I didn't give your brother a quarter for raking leaves. I gave him a quarter because he loves me; and he wants to help me."

My dad was an Atheist; and he wasn't even my blood father. He was my stepdad; but he still understood how a father wants to be loved. This is how I love people who I see stranded on the side of the road. I don't help them for a reward. I help them because my heart tells me to.

I'm obedient to YHWH's perfect law, not for what I think I might get out of him. That seems like a burden to me. It also seems insincere. I'm obedient out of love for him. It's easy.

Let his will be done regarding any reward he might have for me. His will is out of my control; and his will, will be done. Worrying about it will change nothing. If I lay down my life in love for him, with no care of what he will give me in return; then there is nothing to fear. He has already given me everything I have. Anything more is already more than I deserve.

If you subscribed to a doctrine that believers could lose their salvation due to things they either do or don't do, you will take it from Hebrews to Revelations.

If you instead subscribed to OSAS, you will take it from Romans to Philemon.

 

[HARK!]

I appreciate your clarifying for me. I misunderstood. I thought your title was aimed at those who fear losing their salvation.

No, I was accused of being in fear of losing my salvation. I'm not; and I wanted to present my perspective.

 

[HARK!]

If you subscribed to a doctrine that believers could lose their salvation due to things they either do or don't do, you will take it from Hebrews to Revelations.

If you instead subscribed to OSAS, you will take it from Romans to Philemon.

This post is way over my head. Can you break this down for me step by step?

 

[Guojing]

This post is way over my head. Can you break this down for me step by step?

During the Tribulation period, one can lose his inital salvation if he does not endure to the end. It is not just faith only in Jesus.

You will get those statements about conditional salvation when you browse the books of Hebrews to Revelations. You can find them yourself right?

 

[HARK!]

During the Tribulation period, one can lose his inital salvation if he does not endure to the end. It is not just faith only in Jesus.

You will get those statements about conditional salvation when you browse the books of Hebrews to Revelations. You can find them yourself right?

I suppose that I can find them myself; now that I am aware of it. Interesting.

 

[Guojing]

I suppose that I can find them myself; now that I am aware of it. Interesting.

The famous verse that most people know how to quote during discussion is James 2:14 but you can also find the same teaching in Hebrews, Peter and John letters too.

 

[HARK!]

The famous verse that most people know how to quote during discussion is James 2:14 but you can also find the same teaching in Hebrews, Peter and John letters too.

Here is a passage from James that I often quote:

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

If we truly believe on what YHWH is telling us; then our actions should reflect our trust in what he has told us. This goes back to the garden. If Adam had trusted YHWH; he would have followed his instructions.

I believe this is why YHWH kept Israel wandering; after they spied out giants in the land. After all they had been through with YHWH, they didn't trust him enough to believe that they could take out the giants, with him on their side.

 

[Guojing]

Here is a passage from James that I often quote:

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

If we truly believe on what YHWH is telling us; then our actions should reflect our trust in what he has told us. This goes back to the garden. If Adam had trusted YHWH; he would have followed his instructions.

I believe this is why YHWH kept Israel wandering; after they spied out giants in the land. After all they had been through with YHWH, they didn't trust him enough to believe that they could take out the giants, with him on their side.

Yep, Israel was not blessed enough, unlike us, to be under OSAS.

They live in constant fear of losing salvation, whether was it before Paul, or after Paul in Hebrews to Revelations.

 

[HARK!]

Yep, Israel was not blessed enough, unlike us, to be under OSAS.

They live in constant fear of losing salvation, whether was it before Paul, or after Paul in Hebrews to Revelations.

Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

 

[JohnB445]

If one can lose it, how do they know, if one can lose it can they get it back.

These important questions are often left out, which is why I stopped taking them seriously about this topic.

 

[BobRyan]

If you instead subscribed to OSAS, you will take it from Romans to Philemon.

Not from Romans 11.
Not from 1 Cor 6
Not from Matt 18
Not from Matt 13
Not from John 15
Not from Matt 7
Not from 1 Cor 9

 

[HARK!]

If one can lose it, how do they know,

Who decides whether or not we inherit the kingdom? If I say I know;and I get it wrong; who wins the argument?

if one can lose it can they get it back.

Good question. I wonder how this verse fits in:

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

These important questions are often left out, which is why I stopped taking them seriously about this topic.

Who are they?

 

[BobRyan]

If one can lose it, how do they know, if one can lose it can they get it back.

These important questions are often left out, which is why I stopped taking them seriously about this topic.

Good questions - addressed in Romans 11
you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

 

[Guojing]

Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

Yes, the OT prophets could not fathom how Gentiles can be saved without Israel being saved first.

That was why Paul revealed a mystery that was unknown to them, that Gentiles can be saved thru the fall of Israel. It was all in Romans 11.

 

[Guojing]

Not from Romans 11.
Not from 1 Cor 6
Not from Matt 18
Not from Matt 13
Not from John 15
Not from Matt 7
Not from 1 Cor 9

Most of the books you quoted are not from Romans to Philemon.

Romans 11 was about Israel's fall leading to the salvation of Gentiles.

1 Cor 9, I suppose you are talking about the final verse. Paul was not talking about losing salvation there. There are many rewards in heaven for good works done.

 

[HARK!]

Yes, the OT prophets could not fathom how Gentiles can be saved without Israel being saved first.

The mixed multitude, who came from the nations, gentiles, goyim, pagans, whatever you wish to call them, entered covenant at Sinai, and became every bit a part of Israel as the blood lineage of Israel. The prophets were well aware of this.

That was why Paul revealed a mystery that was unknown to them, that Gentiles can be saved thru the fall of Israel. It was all in Romans 11.

Israel didn't fall.

Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.


(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

YHWH's covenant is with Israel.


(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

If Israel has fallen to the Pagans, gentiles, goyim, nations, whatever you want to call them; we are doomed.