Fear of hell

[PROPHECYKID]

I rather side with renew on this. I would feel very uncertain trusting someone who has learned what they know from the internet. I hold to the belief that book-education is only to be learned by attending a class held by trained professionals. There are other forms of education though, such as street education which can perhaps teach one something of common sense.

So let me ask you this. When those folks who have book-education have lectures available on the internet, and we look at them, we are not supposed to say anything since we did not actually go the class ourselves? Remember the whole purpose of the class is to get the education.

But what is funny is that what I have actually said is not anything really debatable. Time is spend on scrutinizing the credentials of the messenger instead of examining the message. If I am wrong, it is not because of how I got the information, its because the information is wrong. If I am right it is not because of how I got the information, its because the information is wrong.

 

[Rattus58]

So let me ask you this. When those folks who have book-education have lectures available on the internet, and we look at them, we are not supposed to say anything since we did not actually go the class ourselves? Remember the whole purpose of the class is to get the education.

But what is funny is that what I have actually said is not anything really debatable. Time is spend on scrutinizing the credentials of the messenger instead of examining the message. If I am wrong, it is not because of how I got the information, its because the information is wrong. If I am right it is not because of how I got the information, its because the information is right.

shouldn't it be...

 

[dhh712]

I would consider it a warning of their impending sentence based on their current legal status (guilty) before a holy and just God unless they accept the pardon made available to them as a result of Jesus taking the penalty for their sins on the cross, demonstrating God's love for them and reconciling God' holy and just character with His mercy.

That seems an accurate depiction of it.

I do not wish to be mistaken (and I do not believe you are doing that here), so I would like to stress that I definitely believe that hell should be preached as a fact demonstrated in Scripture, else we leave part of it out and the whole of it must always be considered; nevertheless, it is often thought of as the "difficult" part of Scripture.

I have come to the belief that those who do not trust God shun Him for this (the existence of hell) and feel He is unjust according to their standards. Those who do trust Him, though we may not relish the idea of a hell, nonetheless trust Him as a just, merciful and compassionate God and take what He tells us in Scripture as Truth.

The author's original post seemed to imply that hell was being used as a coercing measure to force someone into believing in God; and that is something which I am whole-heartedly against.

 

[dhh712]

So let me ask you this. When those folks who have book-education have lectures available on the internet, and we look at them, we are not supposed to say anything since we did not actually go the class ourselves? Remember the whole purpose of the class is to get the education.

As long as you consider the source of the information. I meant attending a class, not specifically sitting in a physical classroom (though the old-fashioned part of me prefers this as my natural bias against modern technology).

But what is funny is that what I have actually said is not anything really debatable.

I don't think it is a matter of great debate; it was just a comment. Most of us on here know the true source of all knowledge and wisdom anyway.

Time is spend on scrutinizing the credentials of the messenger instead of examining the message. If I am wrong, it is not because of how I got the information, its because the information is wrong. If I am right it is not because of how I got the information, its because the information is right.

I think it is valuable time spent. I suppose it is a matter of vanity to want to appear right. Nonetheless, if it is a worldly matter I am dealing with, I do wish to appear as a discerning member of society and endeavor to get my information from a reputable source. Unfortunately, much of the material on the internet are from sources that are not reputable for their biases. It can be seen in this way: as a matter of attending an educational center of a well-regarded reputation as opposed to one which would let any fool with some degree teach the subject (I suppose though that can be more-so my bias for high-standards of education coming to play however).

 

[Andrea411]

Aside from this very rational fear, is there any reason for anyone to actually want to become or remain a "christian?"

Fear of eternal torment at the hands of an angry deity is quite rational, even if there remains no evidence for such a place. Pascal said it best when he promoted his fire insurance evangelistic tactic. The trouble is, he didn't know there were actually other belief systems and faiths out there that contradicted his own, so his wager isn't as easy to take as one may think. It also lacks evidence. But self-preservation is a stronger need than morality, honor or dignity, so it is easier (and possibly saner) to take the blue pill and worship a being solely out of fear of eternal torture than it is to stand by your principles and risk offending the said capricious deity.

I'm an annihilist so I believe in Hell and that there will be terrible regret and a great gnashing of teeth when people find out what and whom they rejected. I do not believe the Lord will expend any energy making people suffer for eternity. So it has no effect on my loving the Lord and wanting to remain a Christian.
I don't bring up my views when sharing the gospel but what I do tell people is that becoming a follower of Christ is not 'just about heaven and hell' its about life today. Living in the joy of the Lord and standing in His presence always. The Holy Spirit sticks closer to you then a brother, Jesus said "I call you friend" these are not some far away - in the future terms. Our strength comes from the Lord, our joy is not about singing a song on Sunday but about dwelling with the Lord everyday….. geez…. how shallow can you get…lol
……….I have found standing by my principles in no way compares to listening to the Lord and submitting to His will. His ways are so much higher then mine. I have no problem in admitting its not always easy to do things His way but it is always better.
God bless, andrea

 

[MLEN]

In response to your original post:

Aside from this very rational fear, is there any reason for anyone to actually want to become or remain a "christian?"


For me personally, I do not serve God because I fear hell. I serve him because I love Him and I am in awe of who He is. Therefore, I desire to spend an eternity with Him as his Word promises will happen for those who truly love and want to be with Him.

The other day I was thinking about how I would not want to go to hell - not because I dread it, but because that would mean I would be eternally separated from the God who loves me and whom I love.

So this is why I want to remain a Christian: because I desire to eternally continue to be in and grow in this awesomely, mutually loving relationship with God.

 

[Soul2Soul]

Aside from this very rational fear, is there any reason for anyone to actually want to become or remain a "christian?"

Fear of eternal torment at the hands of an angry deity is quite rational, even if there remains no evidence for such a place. Pascal said it best when he promoted his fire insurance evangelistic tactic. The trouble is, he didn't know there were actually other belief systems and faiths out there that contradicted his own, so his wager isn't as easy to take as one may think. It also lacks evidence. But self-preservation is a stronger need than morality, honor or dignity, so it is easier (and possibly saner) to take the blue pill and worship a being solely out of fear of eternal torture than it is to stand by your principles and risk offending the said capricious deity.

Yes .. God's love for me and His desire for me to be with Him for eternity.

 

[Miguel Lahunken]

Do you let threats of eternal torment in Hell dominate your life? There is a way out.
God is a just God. What did God take away from you that He didn't give you, therefore, being a just God, that He owes you back? He owes you back your previous eternal nonexistence. At your Judgement before Him, if you want it, ask for your eternal nonexistence back. God, being a just God, will give you your eternal nonexistence back. Then, you will never suffer again.

 

[aiki]

Aside from this very rational fear, is there any reason for anyone to actually want to become or remain a "christian?"

God. And fellowship with Him.

Fear of eternal torment at the hands of an angry deity is quite rational, even if there remains no evidence for such a place.

Uh huh. But fear of torment isn't all that God holds out to us. He invites us into an eternal, loving and joyful relationship with Himself. Taking up such an offer is eminently rational, too.

But self-preservation is a stronger need than morality, honor or dignity, so it is easier (and possibly saner) to take the blue pill and worship a being solely out of fear of eternal torture than it is to stand by your principles and risk offending the said capricious deity.

But here's the thing: God doesn't accept obedience to His commands that arises out of fear and self-preservation. The only motive for our obedience that He accepts is love. That's why God's First and Great Commandment to all is to love Him with all of one's being.

 

[user385]

Hi @renew70! I thought of 1 Corinthians 2:9 when I read what you wrote in the original post. God desires that all men become saved. Someday all who have been saved will have perfect joy for eternity. God is who He is. His love is displayed throughout the Bible. There are beautiful words in the Psalms that speak of God's love. In Psalm 42:8 we read that The LORD will command His lovingkindness in the daytime. God wrote the Psalms. The men that God used to write the Psalms expressed pain and difficulties that they experienced. Knowing that the words of the Psalms are from God tells us that God understands that we have pain and that He loves us. We must believe in Jesus Christ to receive eternal life. We must believe in Jesus Christ to not experience God's wrath. Every person who is living on this earth is experiencing God's love. He gives us the food that we need. A man who believes in Jesus Christ is called a son. They are a part of a family. Read Psalm 145:8-9. Read about the people written about in the bible who were saved. Read about the evil things they did. Read the book of Ecclesiastes or read it again if you have already read it. Solomon tried to do a lot of things to find joy. God had mercy on Solomon. Romans 8 tells us about God's love.

 

[Hawkins]

Aside from this very rational fear, is there any reason for anyone to actually want to become or remain a "christian?"

Fear of eternal torment at the hands of an angry deity is quite rational, even if there remains no evidence for such a place. Pascal said it best when he promoted his fire insurance evangelistic tactic. The trouble is, he didn't know there were actually other belief systems and faiths out there that contradicted his own, so his wager isn't as easy to take as one may think. It also lacks evidence. But self-preservation is a stronger need than morality, honor or dignity, so it is easier (and possibly saner) to take the blue pill and worship a being solely out of fear of eternal torture than it is to stand by your principles and risk offending the said capricious deity.

From my speculation on the other hand, "fear of eternal torment" seldom has any true effect. The majority didn't join Christianity by fear, and non-believers have no fear at all. Its effect is very much exaggerated rather as a anti-religion argument.

That said, for the sake of argument, if hell is true how would you like this truth to be conveyed but without the fear you mentioned here?