Fear and the Christian Message

quatona · Jun 10, 2015

juvenissun said:
No. Not for me, but for them. Children are afraid (fear) of parents no matter you hit them or not.

This may or may not be the case, but is not the issue here. The issue (assuming your premise is correct) is: Is it a good idea for parents to confirm, amplify and/or exploit this fear, or is it a good idea to help them overcome it.
The answer to that question depends on several factors, e.g. your outlook on humans and life, your metaphysical convictions and, first of all, your goals in bringing up your child.
Personally, none of the goals I have in the upbringing of children can be better accomplished by keeping the child in fear of me. Au contraire, this strategy would be counterproductive to my goals.

quatona · Jun 10, 2015

juvenissun said:
Make child physically uncomfortable.

Is that the latest euphemism for violence?
Or what exactly do I have to imagine this as?

juvenissun · Jun 10, 2015

quatona said:
This may or may not be the case, but is not the issue here. The issue (assuming your premise is correct) is: Is it a good idea for parents to confirm, amplify and/or exploit this fear, or is it a good idea to help them overcome it.
The answer to that question depends on several factors, e.g. your outlook on humans and life, your metaphysical convictions and, first of all, your goals in bringing up your child.
Personally, none of the goals I have in the upbringing of children can be better accomplished by keeping the child in fear of me. Au contraire, this strategy would be counterproductive to my goals.

Not to confirm (no need, it won't go away), not to amplify, not to overcome (impossible), just leave it as it is, and use it for children's benefit.

quatona · Jun 10, 2015

juvenissun said:
Not to confirm (no need, it won't go away), not to amplify, not to overcome (impossible), just leave it as it is, and use it for children's benefit.

Quite apparently, you have a different idea of what benefits a child´s development than I have.
Anyway, there´s little point in discussing strategies when the goals aren´t defined.

siralex172 · Jun 10, 2015

Nothing is like the fear of the Lord its needed mainly for this world because people try to intimidate each other to conform them, etc. The evil spirits trying to take you, all obey Jesus because he is greater and if you dont think so then you'll be burned in hellfire.

Archaeopteryx · Jun 10, 2015

Siralex162 said:
Nothing is like the fear of the Lord its needed mainly for this world because people try to intimidate each other to conform them, etc. The evil spirits trying to take you, all obey Jesus because he is greater and if you dont think so then you'll be burned in hellfire.

In what sense is that a just punishment?

quatona · Jun 10, 2015

Archaeopteryx said:
In what sense is that a just punishment?

You already know the answer: Because God is just.

TheBarrd · Jun 10, 2015

1Jn_4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Rajni · Jun 10, 2015

TheBarrd said:

1Jn_4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Click to expand...

Amen.
I had posted this verse previously (post #25) but it was
i̶g̶n̶o̶r̶e̶d̶ missed. Hopefully, you'll have better luck!

-

TheBarrd · Jun 10, 2015

chaela said:
Amen.
I had posted this verse previously (post #25) but it was
i̶g̶n̶o̶r̶e̶d̶ missed. Hopefully, you'll have better luck!

-

Sorry...I did miss your post.

Maybe if enough Christians keep posting this verse, someone will pick up on it.
At least, that is my prayer....

Paulos23 · Jun 10, 2015

juvenissun said:
No. Not for me, but for them. Children are afraid (fear) of parents no matter you hit them or not.

Are you using the biblical definition of fear here? Because this makes no sense to me, and describes and unhealthy relationship between the parents and child if you are using the modern definition of fear.

bhsmte · Jun 10, 2015

quatona said:
This may or may not be the case, but is not the issue here. The issue (assuming your premise is correct) is: Is it a good idea for parents to confirm, amplify and/or exploit this fear, or is it a good idea to help them overcome it.
The answer to that question depends on several factors, e.g. your outlook on humans and life, your metaphysical convictions and, first of all, your goals in bringing up your child.
Personally, none of the goals I have in the upbringing of children can be better accomplished by keeping the child in fear of me. Au contraire, this strategy would be counterproductive to my goals.

Well stated.

Fear is indeed a powerful motivator, but when fear is constantly induced from outside forces as motivation; parents, God's, bosses, coaches, etc.., it comes with side effects, that tend to blow up over time.

TheBarrd · Jun 10, 2015

Perhaps I am missing something.
Do parents today still impose consequences for bad behavior?
I'm not necessarily talking about physical punishment...but surely there are going to be times when we must restrain our children?
Shouldn't our kids rightfully fear these consequences imposed by good parents?
Just trying to think it through....

bhsmte · Jun 10, 2015

TheBarrd said:
Perhaps I am missing something.
Do parents today still impose consequences for bad behavior?
I'm not necessarily talking about physical punishment...but surely there are going to be times when we must restrain our children?
Shouldn't our kids rightfully fear these consequences imposed by good parents?
Just trying to think it through....

It is healthy to fear the consequences for certain behavior, it is not healthy to fear the parents, or any other person of leadership.

When fear is overused by people, whether it be parents, bosses, coaches and the like, it eventually comes back to bite them. People who need to rely on fear to keep others in control, typically lose the respect of that person, in due time. When respect is lost, good luck trying to lead someone.

quatona · Jun 10, 2015

TheBarrd said:
Perhaps I am missing something.
Do parents today still impose consequences for bad behavior?

I´m not agreeing with the terminology, to begin with. Consequences are what happens necessarily. Imposed sanctions aren´t consequences, they are punishments. Punishment is imposed because there aren´t any (severe) consequences to the behaviour in question.

I'm not necessarily talking about physical punishment...but surely there are going to be times when we must restrain our children?

Right from the top I can´t think of any where we must do that.
Can you give me some examples, along with good reasons why we must do it?

Shouldn't our kids rightfully fear these consequences imposed by good parents?

(I´m ignoring the loads in your question.):
No, I think they´d be better off not to fear them.
In any case, the point discussed was not the fear of consequences, but the fear of fathers or parents in general.

Rajni · Jun 10, 2015

TheBarrd said:

Sorry...I did miss your post.

Click to expand...

No apology necessary -- I should've specified that it
appeared to be ignored/missed from the pro-fear camp
specifically. I'm very glad you also shared that verse.

Maybe if enough Christians keep posting this verse, someone will pick up on it.
At least, that is my prayer....

Yes, amen.

-

TheBarrd · Jun 10, 2015

bhsmte said:
It is healthy to fear the consequences for certain behavior, it is not healthy to fear the parents, or any other person of leadership.

When fear is overused by people, whether it be parents, bosses, coaches and the like, it eventually comes back to bite them. People who need to rely on fear to keep others in control, typically lose the respect of that person, in due time. When respect is lost, good luck trying to lead someone.

I totally agree. Leaders should not rely on fear, at least not the kind of abject terror you seem to be suggesting.
However, we all agree that there are consequences that follow bad behavior.
Most of us would rather avoid such consequences...therefore, we do not indulge in bad behavior.
I think we're not understanding the term "fear" here. Or maybe I am. I'm not thinking of the sort of fear inspired by Freddy Kruger movies.
Even this website imposes sanctions for bad behavior. There are rules we must follow.
I do not wish to lose the privilege of posting here, so I try to obey the rules as best I can.
Is that "fear"?

bhsmte · Jun 10, 2015

TheBarrd said:
I totally agree. Leaders should not rely on fear, at least not the kind of abject terror you seem to be suggesting.
However, we all agree that there are consequences that follow bad behavior.
Most of us would rather avoid such consequences...therefore, we do not indulge in bad behavior.
I think we're not understanding the term "fear" here. Or maybe I am. I'm not thinking of the sort of fear inspired by Freddy Kruger movies.
Even this website imposes sanctions for bad behavior. There are rules we must follow.
I do not wish to lose the privilege of posting here, so I try to obey the rules as best I can.
Is that "fear"?

No, I would call that simple respect for the rules.

When I use the word "fear" as a strategy people use to motivate others, I am talking about the emotional response that is triggered in an individual that occurs when fear is the main tool.

Fear is a form of emotional abuse, which takes it toll on the person that is receiving it and eventually causes a complete lack of respect for the person delivering it.

TheBarrd · Jun 10, 2015

quatona said:
I´m not agreeing with the terminology, to begin with. Consequences are what happens necessarily. Imposed sanctions aren´t consequences, they are punishments. Punishment is imposed because there aren´t any (severe) consequences to the behaviour in question.

I notice that you chose not to reveal your gender or your age.
I'm just curious...do you have any children?

quatona said:
Right from the top I can´t think of any where we must do that.
Can you give me some examples, along with good reasons why we must do it?

Because children are naturally curious, and will get into things that could hurt them. Not too long ago there was a child found, floating in the neighbor's pool. Her parents are good parents, with three more children. Mom turned her back long enough to take clothes out of the washing machine and put them in the dryer. A very tragic situation.
Kids will run out into the street, or climb into someone's old refrigerator, or get into kitchen drawers...or any number of things you never thought of.

I learned when my first little boy was just a year old. I left him with my mother at the airport where we were waiting for my uncle's plane so that I could take his new baby sister to the ladies lounge to nurse her...when I got back, he was gone.
Thank God he had only wandered into the men's lounge, and was curled up asleep with his bottle...but you can't even imagine the terror of that sickening moment...my baby...lost in an international airport!
After that, as much as I hated it, I got one of those baby leash thingies...

quatona said:
(I´m ignoring the loads in your question.):
No, I think they´d be better off not to fear them.
In any case, the point discussed was not the fear of consequences, but the fear of fathers or parents in general.

It is the parents who are responsible for the child's behavior.

TheBarrd · Jun 10, 2015

I'm not suggesting that children ought to quiver in terror at the sound of their parents' voices.
There should be a loving relationship between parents and their children.
However, there must be respect, as well.
Everyone is happier when the rules are understood...

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