juvenissun
... and God saw that it was good.
- Apr 5, 2007
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It depends on how you do it. It is an art. Absolutely no beating is not good.
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I did not imply that instilling fear in and beating children was a good thing. I do not think that it is. Do you?
Well, if that´s a good analogy to support your view, I guess you and I have vastly different opinions about the benefits and damages coming from fear of your parents.
You can not learn and fear at the same time, this is because fear is a defensive reaction when you lack learning. If you really want your children to fear for goodness sake then don't blame them when they turn evil.
Are you suggesting that Gods "fear" (Spiritual fear) is different from normal human fear (Physical fear)In fairness to the OP, I don't think that she's really talking about fear, as in the visceral and absolutely soul shattering emotion where you're unable to absorb much meaningful information. It's closer to anxiety, which refers to something that's not immediate and/or not certain. You can still learn when you're anxious about something, at least unless the anxiety is unusually extreme (although making your children anxious when they're around you is pretty messed up, too).
The issue with "learning" when you're anxious is that you're just absorbing the information. You're not able to weigh it rationally in any way, shape, or form. That might be fine when you're in a situation where you're definitely in danger or where only one option out of many is safe and the safe option is obvious, but if the chance of danger seriously needs to be evaluated (or if the one safe route is one that you have to be able to pick out of several possible candidates), then anxiety can put you at more risk. It can make you accept things that are patently irrational.
It's inappropriate when applied to something like Christianity because you have to be able to actually analyze, rationally, what the risks and rewards associated with belief or non-belief are and the likelihood of each of those happening. Anxiety overplays risks and their likelihood.
And should these beatings should continue into adulthood? Do you feel that you would benefit from a good beating? If it were done artfully, of course.It depends on how you do it. It is an art. Absolutely no beating is not good.
OK. Then try this: Father-child relationship. Father loves child. Child... FEAR/love father. You do know how a child will become if he has no fear to his parents.
It is a good analogy to God-human relationship.
I'm not speaking to the OP, rather to your statement.
I see no reason why a person can't fear and learn at the same time. Are you saying you can't imagine any circumstances where a person experiences fear and learns at the same time ?
Fear is a basic human emotion and it is a good thing to have. We fear a lion even it is your pet. Why shouldn't we fear God, even God is love?
Are you suggesting that Gods "fear" (Spiritual fear) is different from normal human fear (Physical fear)
The bases is the same, any type of fear is a reaction to a lack of information. People fear hell not because they actually know there going there, but because they can't be sure 100% if they will go there.Huh? No, I'm saying that the sort of fear you're talking about (where you can't absorb any information at all) is more of a visceral response to something immediately dangerous. You can easily have that about physical dangers, and there's no real difference to how your brain responds to physical and "spiritual" fears (because they both boil down to the same thing; fear in Christianity is a fear of Hell, and that's a fear of pain and the deprivation of pleasure). People don't usually feel that in regard to religious issues, although they certainly can. The sort of fear that the OP is referring to is a gnawing anxiety that you might go to Hell at some undefined point in the future. You can absorb information when you're afraid of something like that. You just can't be rational about that information, so it's very bad for a situation where you have to make an intellectual decision, as with religious issues.
There are some who keep asking me to deliver a concept of Christianity without fear. Such would be a gospel of lunacy although it is expressed by many these days.
Here are some proverbs for consideration:
1. It is better to fear and live than to cast off the restraints of fear and die.
2. Which of you, seeing your child about to drink a deadly poison would not cause them to fear?
3. The lack of fear is irrational, you should have yourself committed.
Take a little time to consider what each of these proverbs is saying, then make your reply. I'm sure you can find real life examples for all of these.
OK. Then try this: Father-child relationship. Father loves child. Child... FEAR/love father. You do know how a child will become if he has no fear to his parents.
It is a good analogy to God-human relationship.
I disagree and would simply repeat to you what I already stated in previous posts to the other poster on this topic.Fear triggers an involuntary adrenaline rush, which will disconnect cognitive abilities to some extent and trigger impulses of fight or flight. It is not sensible to suggest that a person experiencing such an adrenaline rush can learn anything other than to be afraid of whatever is making them afraid. Chances are they won't be able to learn their times tables or the periodic table.
http://phobias.about.com/od/introductiontophobias/a/psychologyfear.htm
So is [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ting their pants.Of course, there are different degrees and different effects. But the nature is the same. Fear is one of the basic nature of children,
No fear is a lie,[/quiote]
I´m not understanding what you are trying to say here.
I was under the impression that we weren´t talking about fear in general, but about fear of your father in particula - and as far as fear of your father is concerned, I disagree wholeheartedly with your statement.it is not healthy, not beneficial and not good.
I disagree and would simply repeat to you what I already stated in previous posts to the other poster on this topic.
My stance is that I believe a person can experience fear and also learn while experiencing fear. I do not see how they need be mutually exclusive. I never stated they would learn the same as if they were not experiencing fear, or that fear would not have an impact on them in some capacity, or that fear couldn't diminish or hinder learning. I agree that a strong enough fear response can perhaps prevent learning altogether. Some of the generalized statements the other poster made, and your statement of:'You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.' Daniel Moynihan
What I said is a fact; people who are afraid will find their ability to learn very much impeded, and perhaps prevented altogether.
That is a fact.
And should these beatings should continue into adulthood? Do you feel that you would benefit from a good beating? If it were done artfully, of course.
Of course not, an adult is responsible for himself. However, I am not sure when should physical lessons (include beating) be stopped. I guess it is also an art.
No benefit to me. All benefits go to the children.
I am afraid parenting has rather moved on from that kind of thinking.
A relationship where a child fears its father is a dysfunctional relationship. Ditto for God:human relationships. Respect, certainly. Fear, not so much. And fortunately for me, the Bible concurs;
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
http://biblehub.com/psalms/111-10.htm
Kindly note, fear is the beginning, but it is not the end. A relationship with God as our loving Father is the end; a Father who gathers us to him as a hen gathers her chicks. A Father whose perfect love casts out all fear.
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