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Fear and loathing

Pinp

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KarateCowboy said:
Pinp-san. I will not ask you to agree that it is the case here (though it is, in truth), but will you agree with me that finding someone's behavior abhorrent and objectionable does not necessitate hatred of an individual or fear?

This came up in another thread and I found it an interesting enough question that I wanted to discuss it further on its own merit.

Would you agree or disagree that its possible to find someone's behavior objectionable and abhorrent and that these feelings do not stem from hatred?

If you agree then do these feelings stem from fear or not?

I think it is at least theoretically possible that someone might object to the behavior of another without being motivated to object out of malice or fear. In practice however this is usually not the case.

OR is this that the richest thing you've ever heard?
 

Lynden1000

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This came up in another thread and I found it an interesting enough question that I wanted to discuss it further on its own merit.

Would you agree or disagree that its possible to find someone's behavior objectionable and abhorrent and that these feelings do not stem from hatred?

If you agree then do these feelings stem from fear or not?

I think it is at least theoretically possible that someone might object to the behavior of another without being motivated to object out of malice or fear. In practice however this is usually not the case.

OR is this that the richest thing you've ever heard?


Are you asking whether the feelings stem from hatred of the act or the person ?

I think it's entirely possible to object to one's behavior without possessing hatred of or malice toward the person. I might love a member of my family deeply while hating his heavy drinking or his infidelity to his wife, etc.
 
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JGG

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This came up in another thread and I found it an interesting enough question that I wanted to discuss it further on its own merit.

Would you agree or disagree that its possible to find someone's behavior objectionable and abhorrent and that these feelings do not stem from hatred?

If you agree then do these feelings stem from fear or not?

I think it is at least theoretically possible that someone might object to the behavior of another without being motivated to object out of malice or fear. In practice however this is usually not the case.

OR is this that the richest thing you've ever heard?

Psychologically it depends on the number of concepts you associate with the person in question. If you associate numerous positive concepts with a person, and one negative concept, then it could be said that you hate the behavior, but not the person (although you still direct hatred at the person).

When researching this sort of phenomenon, we tend to use a test that shows whether you are more inclined to associate negative traits, or positive traits to a person. In our psychological community we have defined hatred as the propensity to automatically associate negative traits with a person.

Now, if your main associated concept of a person is their negative behavior, then it is nearly guaranteed that you will automatically associate negative traits to them. So, from our perspective this is hate. However, if that negative association is tempered with other positive associations, then you are more likely to automatically associate positive traits to the person.

The topic of "hate" is far more complex than this (involving outgroups, ingroups, selevtive attention, cognitive disonance, groupthink, etc...), but I think this gives a fairly basic answer to the question.

Yes, to find such action "abhorrent" most likely stems from hatred. No, it does not necessarily mean you hate the individual person displaying the action. Yes, it does mean you hate a person whom you only associate negative concepts to.

The irony of this is that one can be a complete racist, and still have other-race friends (Archie Bunker being the great popular culture reference to this). Which is why I often chuckle when someone says "I don't hate (insert minority group here), some of my best friends are (insert minority group here)."
 
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Lynden1000

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Interesting. Now as to the question of fear. Can we infer that someone is afraid of a particular behavior i.e. drinking and this motivates them to avoid it?

No, I wouldn't think they're necessarily motivated by fear. They *might* be, but I don't see that they necessarily must be. They might be motivated by any number of reasons. Or they might just genuinely believe that the behavior is unethical.
 
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Caylin

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This came up in another thread and I found it an interesting enough question that I wanted to discuss it further on its own merit.

Would you agree or disagree that its possible to find someone's behavior objectionable and abhorrent and that these feelings do not stem from hatred?

If you agree then do these feelings stem from fear or not?

I think it is at least theoretically possible that someone might object to the behavior of another without being motivated to object out of malice or fear. In practice however this is usually not the case.

OR is this that the richest thing you've ever heard?

I think the person quoted in the OP puts the lie to his words about not hating when he deliberately uses derogatory language to describe what he is talking about, and then cries fowl when someone says something slightly negative about his view point.
 
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CaDan

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I think the person quoted in the OP puts the lie to his words about not hating when he deliberately uses derogatory language to describe what he is talking about, and then cries fowl when someone says something slightly negative about his view point.

True that.

I also find it interesting that those who claim to "hate the sin, but love the sinner" see to want to talk about both the sin and the sinner all the time.

Seems a bit obsessive to me.
 
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KarateCowboy

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True that.

I also find it interesting that those who claim to "hate the sin, but love the sinner" see to want to talk about both the sin and the sinner all the time.

Seems a bit obsessive to me.

Why thank you. It is a compliment that you find me of enough significance to commit such careful observation to my behavior.

As for the topic I think it is a fine line and takes constant vigilance to stay on the right side. Maybe for some it is easier than others but I think that this is why Jesus said "pray for your enemies".

Abraham Lincoln once said "Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friend?". Along a similar line I think it is a greater victory to turn a man from a viceful behavior in such a way that he agrees with you than it is to stop him from that behavior my force. However I wonder if a distinction should be made between personal and mass application of that principle.
 
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CaDan

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Why thank you. It is a compliment that you find me of enough significance to commit such careful observation to my behavior.

As for the topic I think it is a fine line and takes constant vigilance to stay on the right side. Maybe for some it is easier than others but I think that this is why Jesus said "pray for your enemies".

Abraham Lincoln once said "Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friend?". Along a similar line I think it is a greater victory to turn a man from a viceful behavior in such a way that he agrees with you than it is to stop him from that behavior my force. However I wonder if a distinction should be made between personal and mass application of that principle.

Gay people are your enemies?
 
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CaDan

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No no no. I like happy people. I am quite gay myself, and chipper, at that.

I was just using one principle to explain another. They are similar.

Do you play poker? Are you familiar with the idea of a "tell"?
 
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