Fate?

[SHiNiNGxSTAR]

What is fate? Fate is the belief that we are preordained to do whatever we are doing. Am I right in saying that? And if fate exists, can we have more faith in individual human subjectivity than we do in objective observation? Subjectively, a lot of people "know"/believe that they are preordained to do what they do. Objectively, one might say that fate is an illusion. If everything is the effect of a cause ... then everything is preordained by whatever happened to cause it ... but somehow this seems like circular logic.

Like, we are the way we are and we do the things we do because we are somehow preordained to do so (e: everything that occurred before us makes us do what we do) ... but for us to be certain that fate exists, don't we have to know what happened beforehand?

And about the people who believe themselves to genuinely be in control of what happens in their lives and believe that all their decisions are entirely their own, are they dillusional and egomaniacal, or do they actually have the control that the rest of us may lack?

Sorry if I'm not making any sense. Ask me anything you need to ask me to clarify. I'd love to hear all of your opinions.

 

[loudatheist101]

What do you mean by "fate"? Do you mean "chance"?

 

[SHiNiNGxSTAR]

I mean predestination.

 

[loudatheist101]

I mean predestination.

What?

 

[livingone]

What is fate? Fate is the belief that we are preordained to do whatever we are doing. Am I right in saying that? And if fate exists, can we have more faith in individual human subjectivity than we do in objective observation? Subjectively, a lot of people "know"/believe that they are preordained to do what they do. Objectively, one might say that fate is an illusion. If everything is the effect of a cause ... then everything is preordained by whatever happened to cause it ... but somehow this seems like circular logic.

Like, we are the way we are and we do the things we do because we are somehow preordained to do so (e: everything that occurred before us makes us do what we do) ... but for us to be certain that fate exists, don't we have to know what happened beforehand?

And about the people who believe themselves to genuinely be in control of what happens in their lives and believe that all their decisions are entirely their own, are they dillusional and egomaniacal, or do they actually have the control that the rest of us may lack?

Sorry if I'm not making any sense. Ask me anything you need to ask me to clarify. I'd love to hear all of your opinions.

Fate is the fallen truth of existence. What comprises our lives. To be in chains relevant to our experience. Our fate is here and now. Our destiny is what we seek. In destiny there is hope of a better tommorrow.
When we live in our present we are living in our fate. Our fate is our journey. Destiny is the destination of our journey.

 

[loudatheist101]

Fate is the fallen truth of existence. What comprises our lives. To be in chains relevant to our experience. Our fate is here and now. Our destiny is what we seek. In destiny there is hope of a better tommorrow.
When we live in our present we are living in our fate. Our fate is our journey. Destiny is the destination of our journey.

What the....

Metaphors, metaphors, and metaphors.

 

[livingone]

What the....

Metaphors, metaphors, and metaphors.

words paint pictures of thought.

 

[quatona]

What is fate? Fate is the belief that we are preordained to do whatever we are doing. Am I right in saying that?

I think "fate" points to those things outside our control.
I personally am convinced that every action is the necessary result of all factors involved. I´m not sure I would call that "fate", but it seems to be close to the idea you are describing.

And if fate exists, can we have more faith in individual human subjectivity than we do in objective observation?

Our observation is subjective.

Subjectively, a lot of people "know"/believe that they are preordained to do what they do.

Some of them can even bring good reasons for this assumption to the table.

Objectively, one might say that fate is an illusion.

One cannot say anything objectively. I don´t seem to understand what makes the second statement more objective than the first. Please explain.

If everything is the effect of a cause ...

...countless causes, to be precise....

then everything is preordained by whatever happened to cause it ... but somehow this seems like circular logic.

Where exactly do you detect circularity? I for one haven´t even seen a logical deduction so far.

Like, we are the way we are and we do the things we do because we are somehow preordained to do so (e: everything that occurred before us makes us do what we do) ... but for us to be certain that fate exists, don't we have to know what happened beforehand?

No. It would be enough to notice that something is beyond our control or that we face results that we have neiter intended nor even had a chance of anticipating (not to mention change or avoid planfully).

And about the people who believe themselves to genuinely be in control of what happens in their lives and believe that all their decisions are entirely their own, are they dillusional and egomaniacal, or do they actually have the control that the rest of us may lack?

I don´t think anyone has that sort of control you seem to be speaking of. I see no reason to use derogatory terms for those who feel they are in control. It is a widely spread and almost self-suggesting idea, after all - however, I think it is an illusion.

 

[elman]

What is fate? Fate is the belief that we are preordained to do whatever we are doing. Am I right in saying that? And if fate exists, can we have more faith in individual human subjectivity than we do in objective observation? Subjectively, a lot of people "know"/believe that they are preordained to do what they do. Objectively, one might say that fate is an illusion. If everything is the effect of a cause ... then everything is preordained by whatever happened to cause it ... but somehow this seems like circular logic.

Like, we are the way we are and we do the things we do because we are somehow preordained to do so (e: everything that occurred before us makes us do what we do) ... but for us to be certain that fate exists, don't we have to know what happened beforehand?

And about the people who believe themselves to genuinely be in control of what happens in their lives and believe that all their decisions are entirely their own, are they dillusional and egomaniacal, or do they actually have the control that the rest of us may lack?

Sorry if I'm not making any sense. Ask me anything you need to ask me to clarify. I'd love to hear all of your opinions.

I don't believe in fate. I also don't belileve all my decisions are entirely my own. I do believe I have some input and effect on my decisions and I also believe that the history that impacts on some of my decisions was also created partially by me.

 

[EmmVeePee]

Predetermination?

If you buy into the big bang theory, every molecule had a set speed and vector since the beginning of time. Thought, is nothing more than an electrochemical signal in our brains - more atoms. Since we know nothing* is random, there seems to be little room for free will.

Quantum Weirdness.

*However it seems that there is something in the world that is random - electron position. Quantum physics is barely understood, but it seems through numerous experiments (most famously, the board with the slit), that electrons due behave in a random fashion (Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle).

Well now lets look at bonds, what do they involve? Electron position. Almost as a pin that locks 2 train cars together, when electron orbitals come near, the probability of the overlapping orbitals nearly collapse the wave function giving the electron the probability of being in that area to a ridiculous percentage. However, its position isn't guaranteed. Electrons travel in waves of probability, it can be here, there, or perhaps in another universe. They can appear miles away from where they're being sent. This is somewhat demonstrated by existence of so-called "virtual particles".

Here is where it gets interesting.

There is some hypothesizing that the brain is able to collapse the wave function on its own, and dictate electron position. Keep in mind, this is purely hypothesis, but this gives evidence for a "soul".

Before, they believed that the hippocampus minor was the "seat of the soul" because we had it, and apes didn't... then of course, they found it in apes. So hypothesis isn't everything.

So in the end... we might have free will, we might not

I believe, we do.

 

[Emmy]

Dear ShiningxStar, if you mean preordination/ predestination, that is not God`s Will for us. He gave us free choice, to choose Good, or Evil, to return back to Him, or to go our own way. God has preordained some men,or women, i.e. Moses of old, and Billy Graham more recent, but never against their will, God knew they were the right people for His task, and would enjoy doing it. God does not force us, He wants our love and allegiance, freely given. We choose our fate, our destiny, we know what is right and what is wrong, and we pay the consequences, for good deeds, or bad ones, good rewards and life abundantly, or painful and just consequences. I say this humbly and with love, ShiningxStar, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.