Faster-Than-Light Neutrinos Do It Again!

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BBC News - Neutrino experiment repeat at Cern finds same result

So it seems that they have repeated the experiment while minimizing error and they've found almost the exact same result!

However, one error that has not been mentioned in any articles I've read that seems so obvious is the fact that the distance between the CERN laboratory and the detector in Italy is so far (about 730 km) that they could never possible hope to get the accuracy they would need. It basically requires that they measure the distance between the two places to the nearest centimeter!

Is this kind of accuracy possible when you're dealing with a distance of 730 km?

 

[Cabal]

BBC News - Neutrino experiment repeat at Cern finds same result

So it seems that they have repeated the experiment while minimizing error and they've found almost the exact same result!

However, one error that has not been mentioned in any articles I've read that seems so obvious is the fact that the distance between the CERN laboratory and the detector in Italy is so far (about 730 km) that they could never possible hope to get the accuracy they would need. It basically requires that they measure the distance between the two places to the nearest centimeter!

Is this kind of accuracy possible when you're dealing with a distance of 730 km?

Apparently so, if you use GPS.

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1109/1109.4897.pdf

 

[Tinker Grey]

Not with standard GPS, though. You need differential GPS. The software here at work claims the error is a few millimeters.

 

[Naraoia]

This is getting interesting.

So... what if the neutrinos DID travel faster than light? What if special relativity is right about there being a cosmic speed limit, but wrong about it being the speed of light? Could photons have mass?

This should probably go in the Ask a physicist thread

 

[Tinker Grey]

What sort of conduit are they using to transmit the neutrinos?

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

What sort of conduit are they using to transmit the neutrinos?

Solid ground.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Don't worry, the universe has momentarily intersected with a alien twin where the laws of nature differ, but we ought to back on track soon.

 

[RickG]

I think it is best to see how this faster than light idea pans out over time through the scientific community rather than news releases which all too often get spun to draw interest rather than facts "within context". Remember "cold fusion"?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Solid ground.

Really? OK. I was thinking if they needed, say, fiber optics then there could be a mismeasurement of the distance due to perturbation of the material. But, I guess that's not an issue if neutrinos can pass through material in a straight-line.

I wonder though if this anomaly, if it isn't experimental error, might be like tidal wave moving faster than sound. Nevertheless, I guess it would still have relativistic implications.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

I'm wondering what the ramifications are for time travel.

 

[cupid dave]

BBC News - Neutrino experiment repeat at Cern finds same result

So it seems that they have repeated the experiment while minimizing error and they've found almost the exact same result!

However, one error that has not been mentioned in any articles I've read that seems so obvious is the fact that the distance between the CERN laboratory and the detector in Italy is so far (about 730 km) that they could never possible hope to get the accuracy they would need. It basically requires that they measure the distance between the two places to the nearest centimeter!

Is this kind of accuracy possible when you're dealing with a distance of 730 km?

Probably they can measure using lazers, but he implication seems to be that neutrinos are weightless particles with an energy equivalency of @ 2ev, which infers that Einstein was correct about particles with mass.

 

[Huram Abi]

What exactly are you talking about when you say "Einstien was correct about particles with mass."? Just what is he correct about?


Also, you've had this explained to you by a few people, weight, a force, is a measurement of how hard gravity is pulling on an object, which isn't an indication on it's own of how much mass matter or energy have.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I'm wondering what the ramifications are for time travel.

I have been banned for posting before I set up an account.

 

[Doveaman]

I'm wondering what the ramifications are for time travel.

I'm wondering what time travel has to do with light speed being exceeded?

 

[Jazer]

I'm wondering what time travel has to do with light speed being exceeded?

That is Einstein's Relativity Theory. If you traveled the speed of light time for you would stop. At the speed we are able to travel the best you can hope for is to save a second or two in time compared to people who are not moving. So if you believe every second counts then you could stay younger then your contemporaries.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I'm wondering what time travel has to do with light speed being exceeded?

In relativity the speed of light is a "universal speed limit". Basically anything travelling faster would actually travel back in time.

 

[Doveaman]

In relativity the speed of light is a "universal speed limit".

Is relativity correct about the universal speed limit?

Basically anything travelling faster would actually travel back in time.

If relativity is not correct about the universal speed limit, it is also likely not correct about time traveling.

 

[Astridhere]

In relativity the speed of light is a "universal speed limit". Basically anything travelling faster would actually travel back in time.

It appears that the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light and the Hubble constant is not constant afterall but is decreasing.

If this talk of time travel being based on exceeding the speed of light has credibility then all galaxies eventually will travel back in time. How bizarre!
Curious About Astronomy: Is the universe expanding faster than the speed of light?

Tachyons also are theorised to travel faster than the speed of light and more work will be done in 2012 in relation to neutrinos. Many scientists debate the current findings.

Faster-than-light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
OPERA neutrino anomaly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently the universe also has an event horizon, an edge beyond which we cannot see due to the expansion rate being faster than the speed of light. In other words researchers are unable to guesstimate the size of the universe, which is going to be larger than the 16 billion light years estimate as they are unable to see father back than that.

It is indeed very interesting and illustrates just how much is unknown and remains theoretical.

 

[Naraoia]

I'm wondering what time travel has to do with light speed being exceeded?

Is relativity correct about the universal speed limit?

That's the big question, isn't it?

If relativity is not correct about the universal speed limit, it is also likely not correct about time traveling.

You just answered your first question.

 

[razeontherock]

I have been banned for posting before I set up an account.

Brilliant!