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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

TheReasoner

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Fascism is a popular word these days. Many people and organizations, even religion(s)(!) are called fascist.

As it seems to be common here to follow this trend, I suggest people read the following to get acquainted with the term:

Fascism is a totalitarian nationalist political ideology and mass movement that is concerned with notions of cultural decline or decadence, and which seeks to achieve a millenarian national rebirth by exalting the nation or race, as well as promoting cults of unity, strength and purity.[1][2][3][4][5]

Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, militarism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, class collaboration, populism, collectivism, statism, social interventionism, and economic planning. Fascism opposes communism, democracy, liberalism, and conservatism (taking into account that fascists made alliances with conservatives more often than other groups).[6][2][1][7][8][9][10] Though nationalist in nature, fascist movements have sought alliances with each other in different countries on common beliefs, such as opposition to communism. Fascist governments nationalized key industries and made massive state investments. They also introduced price controls, wage controls and other types of economic planning measures.[11] Property rights and private initiative were contingent upon service to the state.[12].[13] Fascists promoted their ideology as a "third way" between capitalism and Marxian socialism.[14]

Some authors reject broad usage of the term or exclude certain parties and regimes.[15] Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II, there have been few self-proclaimed fascist groups and individuals. In contemporary political discourse, the term fascist is often used by adherents of some ideologies as a pejorative description of their opponents.

The place of fascism in the political spectrum remains highly debated. In practice, fascism opposed communism and classic liberalism but also laissez faire capitalism and forms of socialism and conservatism. Many scholars accept fascism as a search for a Third Way among these fields.[25][26][27][28][29][30][2][31][32] Sir Oswald Mosley, for example, the leader of the British Union of Fascists, chose to describe his position as "hard centre" on the political spectrum.





In other words:
Quit calling Liberals, Conservatives, Communists, Muslims, Socialists and more Fascists, the term Fascism does usually NOT fit in those places.
Also note that while Fascism is considered 'a third way' in politics, this is NOT to be confused with what is commonly known as the third way, which is something else entirely, while still being located in the center of the political compass. This is all VERY BASIC and if you can't get this down I must ask you what you're doing on these particular boards. It's like discussing math with someone who thinks 1+1=55.
 
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TheReasoner

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Well, your own quote tells you why people equate conservatives with fascists - because they're so very eager to get in bed with one another. It might not be accurate, but it's not without reason.

Well... They are more eager to join up with conservatives than other groups, but I don't think they are all that eager to jump into bed with them. That said, it seems to me that the trend here on CF at least is that most of the people who have an easy time accusing others of being fascists have been conservatives by American standards. Which makes it a bit ironic considering that fascists are more likely to join up with conservatives than anyone else.
 
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Verv

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I think people should be able to discuss fascism in rational terms.

For many nations, the view had been very helpful in advancing themselves. One could argue that modern China currently lives in a fascist state and it is sort of this kindof empowerment to the government that allows for them to maximize efficiency of the society they live in.

People should keep an open mind towards fascism....

:: laughs a little under his breath at the statement he just made... ::
 
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TheReasoner

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I think people should be able to discuss fascism in rational terms.

For many nations, the view had been very helpful in advancing themselves. One could argue that modern China currently lives in a fascist state and it is sort of this kindof empowerment to the government that allows for them to maximize efficiency of the society they live in.

People should keep an open mind towards fascism....

:: laughs a little under his breath at the statement he just made... ::

I'll discuss fascism with fascists or people who know what it is. It is not that appealing to discuss fascism with someone who thinks wanting an increase in taxation equals fascism. Or someone who thinks public health care is. That's like saying free trade is communism. It makes no sense!
 
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FightTheLeft

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Classical liberalism and laissez-faire capitalism are the same thing.

I'll stop calling leftists fascists when they stop supporting net neutrality and stop opposing school vouchers. Both issues where they stand are such utter glorification of the state.
 
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variant

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I think people should be able to discuss fascism in rational terms.

For many nations, the view had been very helpful in advancing themselves. One could argue that modern China currently lives in a fascist state and it is sort of this kindof empowerment to the government that allows for them to maximize efficiency of the society they live in.

People should keep an open mind towards fascism....

:: laughs a little under his breath at the statement he just made... ::

I don't really think it's a good idea to keep an open mind about the effectiveness of totalitarian governments.

China thrives as one of these because corporations export their sweatshop style industrial labor to china in order to make huge profits. Essentially a huge portion of their huge population toils in misery to churn that economic engine.
 
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marshlewis

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Classical liberalism and laissez-faire capitalism are the same thing.

I'll stop calling leftists fascists when they stop supporting net neutrality and stop opposing school vouchers. Both issues where they stand are such utter glorification of the state.


I think this is what the op is talking about.
 
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Classical liberalism and laissez-faire capitalism are the same thing.

I'll stop calling leftists fascists when they stop supporting net neutrality and stop opposing school vouchers. Both issues where they stand are such utter glorification of the state.

You are going to have to help me here... how is net neutrality a "glorification of the state"?
 
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TheReasoner

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Classical liberalism and laissez-faire capitalism are the same thing.

Yes, and?

I'll stop calling leftists fascists when they stop supporting net neutrality and stop opposing school vouchers. Both issues where they stand are such utter glorification of the state.

You are going to have to help me here... how is net neutrality a "glorification of the state"?

You know, I was about to ask the same thing...

I think this is what the op is talking about.

Yes it was. A prime example, actually.
 
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Verv

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I'll discuss fascism with fascists or people who know what it is. It is not that appealing to discuss fascism with someone who thinks wanting an increase in taxation equals fascism. Or someone who thinks public health care is. That's like saying free trade is communism. It makes no sense!

Yeah, a lot more goes into fascism.

Huge tax increases, socialized health care... These are simply socialism.

Fascism is national socialism; operative word being 'national' as in nationalist ,overbearing militaristic views and social conservatism.

A good example of a modern National Socialist state is the People's Republic of China.
 
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FightTheLeft

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Net Neutrality is a way of saying you trust the government to take control of the internet and make it better, or glorification of the state.

Not to mention putting the internet into the hands of the FCC(Federal Censorship Commission) is putting the internet at threat to Americans. The FCC then will be able to block sites. Its no different then putting the FCC in charge of newspapers.

I like that you guys do know that opposing school vouchers is fascist.
 
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tulc

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I like that you guys do know that opposing school vouchers is fascist.

You know, I looked in the dictionary and didn't actually find that in any of the definitions of fascist. :sorry: Could you show me where that's said? :scratch:
tulc(always interested in finding out things) :)
 
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TheNewWorldMan

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Net Neutrality is a way of saying you trust the government to take control of the internet and make it better, or glorification of the state.

Wrong. You don't get to redefine words and terms.

Net neutrality means that an ISP (or an upstream backbone provider) has to treat all Internet traffic equally. That's it.

Not to mention putting the internet into the hands of the FCC(Federal Censorship Commission) is putting the internet at threat to Americans. The FCC then will be able to block sites. Its no different then putting the FCC in charge of newspapers.

I'm no fan of the FCC, though I think an FCC is necessary. The FCC needs its mandate rewritten to move it out of the business of regulating content, and to confine it to regulating the technical aspects of electronic communication (assigning radio and TV station frequencies, broadcast antenna power levels, certifying technical standards, etc., which ARE necessary government functions).
 
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