faltering faith

[staceylee67]

According to John 3:16 I really don't have to go to church. I believe, though my faith is struggling right now. WHy are people who aren't "ON FIRE" looked at as lesser Christians? Why am I treated like a leper if I mention I am struggling with my faith because of all the horrible things in this world? Can we just disregard the OLD TESTAMENT and all of the wacky things there.... you know what I mean...... I just go by the NEW TESTAMENT.
God DOES give people more than they can handle... all of the time. Look at all of the suicides.
This life is hell. The good things are only there to make the bad things feel worse. WHY? Can someone tell me WHY does there have to be so much evil and suffering? This IS hell-- I know it. We are all in hell. Hell, whom a pastor once said id the "ABSENCE" of God......... well, he aint here for me to have two way conversation--- so technically he is absent. I really think this IS hell.

 

[ForJesusChrist]

It seems you need to trust Jesus more and you need to remember to live in Jesus name. If you do so, nothing shall bother you. Remember to keep Jesus first in your life and focus only on Jesus.

Also, where are you treated like this? Every true Christian struggles at some point, whether or not they admit it. I hope it ain't here that your getting treated like a leper.

And God never gives more than you can handle. He know what is right for you to do and even when it may seem hard, trust God with all your life and he will guide you down the right path.

God Bless

 

[Paradoxum]

The person posting above me is basically telling you to stop thinking for yourself. Stop thinking, and problems wont bother you because you wont think about them. (Sorry if that's an unfair characterisation).

That's no way to live a genuine life, where you care if what you believe is true or not.

As you say, people obviously do get more than they can handle. People commit suicide, are murdered, starve to death, or are killed by virus'. Clearly they couldn't cope with what was thrown at them by life.

I hope that whatever conclusion you come to, it will be based on reason, not hiding from doubt.

 

[only a sojourner]

staceylee67, I encourage you to remain steadfast in your faith. I imagine that you may have read my thread-A Testimony- a few threads away from yours. I have just listed a few books that may be helpful to you in that thread. There is a spiritual battle going on for our souls and we need to fight the good fight. Life can seem overwhelming at times. I know this from personal experience and other Christians may not always treat you with kindness and be supportive. Ultimately your trust must be in God. I don't know your specific circumstances but will pray for you. I encourage you to post in the Prayer Requests Sub-forum and reach out to other Christians who can help you. This may not be the best area to post in given your concerns.

 

[Achilles6129]

According to John 3:16 I really don't have to go to church. I believe, though my faith is struggling right now. WHy are people who aren't "ON FIRE" looked at as lesser Christians? Why am I treated like a leper if I mention I am struggling with my faith because of all the horrible things in this world? Can we just disregard the OLD TESTAMENT and all of the wacky things there.... you know what I mean...... I just go by the NEW TESTAMENT.
God DOES give people more than they can handle... all of the time. Look at all of the suicides.
This life is hell. The good things are only there to make the bad things feel worse. WHY? Can someone tell me WHY does there have to be so much evil and suffering? This IS hell-- I know it. We are all in hell. Hell, whom a pastor once said id the "ABSENCE" of God......... well, he aint here for me to have two way conversation--- so technically he is absent. I really think this IS hell.

Contrary to what some may have told you, it's actually good to ask questions about things regarding theology, and I don't think that God minds when you do. I know you said you prefer the New Testament: if this is the case then may I suggest studying the book of Revelation? I believe it answers some deep questions about theology; it's not just an "end-of-the-world" book.

Also, I have a few threads which you are welcome to check out where I ask questions about these sort of topics and engage in lively discussion:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7818143/

http://www.christianforums.com/t7817780/

http://www.christianforums.com/t7816160/

http://www.christianforums.com/t7802156/

http://www.christianforums.com/t7807854/

http://www.christianforums.com/t7807851/

http://www.christianforums.com/t7805451/

http://www.christianforums.com/t7796339/

Hope you enjoy.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Those that refuse to question what they believe or how they think are just denying themselves the ability to have any strength or legitimacy behind their faith. Denial is for the weak, to pretend problems don't exist is to allow them to fester and become worse until they destroy you. This might sound odd coming from an atheist, but I do feel that the fastest way for you to lose any conviction is to expect any view to be flawless and to never develop a means by which to deal with the questions you have.

 

[Syd the Human]

According to John 3:16 I really don't have to go to church. I believe, though my faith is struggling right now. WHy are people who aren't "ON FIRE" looked at as lesser Christians? Why am I treated like a leper if I mention I am struggling with my faith because of all the horrible things in this world? Can we just disregard the OLD TESTAMENT and all of the wacky things there.... you know what I mean...... I just go by the NEW TESTAMENT.
God DOES give people more than they can handle... all of the time. Look at all of the suicides.
This life is hell. The good things are only there to make the bad things feel worse. WHY? Can someone tell me WHY does there have to be so much evil and suffering? This IS hell-- I know it. We are all in hell. Hell, whom a pastor once said id the "ABSENCE" of God......... well, he aint here for me to have two way conversation--- so technically he is absent. I really think this IS hell.

The only advice I can give you is to dive right into these ideas that you have. If you try to ignore them they will only grow bigger and never go away. Fully investigate all the questions you have about your faith. If you still have your faith, it will be stronger because you have the answers to your questions. In fact I think it is necessary to test your faith every now and again.

However your quest turns out I hope you're happy with the result.

 

[Received]

I used to have all sorts of responses for suffering and the existence of God. Until I suffered pretty immensely. Now I take suffering as a brute fact. I'm sympathetic to Ivan Karamazov, who said that if the suffering of children is required for a future paradise that he kindly returns his "ticket" to paradise. If God exists, he has a lot of explaining to do. I used to think that a world where God exists and suffering exists is better than a a world where God doesn't exist and suffering exists, because with the former you have some type of explanation. But, I later came to conclude, with the former you have the heavy intellectual burden of trying to figure out how God can allow such suffering. To me, the different worlds even out.

The only bit of consolation that I can think of is that, as C.S. Lewis said, there's no such thing as additive suffering, where if 100 people suffer that's 100 times the amount of suffering in the world, and that Christ took on a voluntary mission of suffering, not just in his death but also his day-to-day existence.

In a sense, it's just downright perverse to "explain away" the suffering of human beings -- whether because suffering helps us be stronger people, because there's free will misused in the world, whatever. If you attempt to explain suffering, you negate the sufferings of the person in question. The only answer to suffering is the hope that in the future things will be better, both in this life and some sort of afterlife.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

According to John 3:16 I really don't have to go to church. I believe, though my faith is struggling right now. WHy are people who aren't "ON FIRE" looked at as lesser Christians? Why am I treated like a leper if I mention I am struggling with my faith because of all the horrible things in this world? Can we just disregard the OLD TESTAMENT and all of the wacky things there.... you know what I mean...... I just go by the NEW TESTAMENT.
God DOES give people more than they can handle... all of the time. Look at all of the suicides.
This life is hell. The good things are only there to make the bad things feel worse. WHY? Can someone tell me WHY does there have to be so much evil and suffering? This IS hell-- I know it. We are all in hell. Hell, whom a pastor once said id the "ABSENCE" of God......... well, he aint here for me to have two way conversation--- so technically he is absent. I really think this IS hell.

Of course God gives us more than we can handle. Paul expressed this very thing...

The question really is, what is your church going to do to assist you in your struggles? They should attempt to help you as far as they are capable of doing so.

 

[Davian]

I used to have all sorts of responses for suffering and the existence of God. Until I suffered pretty immensely. Now I take suffering as a brute fact. I'm sympathetic to Ivan Karamazov, who said that if the suffering of children is required for a future paradise that he kindly returns his "ticket" to paradise. If God exists, he has a lot of explaining to do.

"If I am wrong, and there is a Judeo/Christian God, the day of my death will truly be judgement day. I do hereby affirm that I will give him a fair chance to account for his deeds before I pass judgement upon him." - unknown

 

[ForJesusChrist]

The person posting above me is basically telling you to stop thinking for yourself. Stop thinking, and problems wont bother you because you wont think about them. (Sorry if that's an unfair characterisation).

When did I say he should stop thinking for himself?

God Bless

 

[variant]

According to John 3:16 I really don't have to go to church. I believe, though my faith is struggling right now. WHy are people who aren't "ON FIRE" looked at as lesser Christians? Why am I treated like a leper if I mention I am struggling with my faith because of all the horrible things in this world? Can we just disregard the OLD TESTAMENT and all of the wacky things there.... you know what I mean...... I just go by the NEW TESTAMENT.
God DOES give people more than they can handle... all of the time. Look at all of the suicides.
This life is hell. The good things are only there to make the bad things feel worse. WHY? Can someone tell me WHY does there have to be so much evil and suffering? This IS hell-- I know it. We are all in hell. Hell, whom a pastor once said id the "ABSENCE" of God......... well, he aint here for me to have two way conversation--- so technically he is absent. I really think this IS hell.

So, why do you think your faith is faltering?

 

[variant]

The only bit of consolation that I can think of is that, as C.S. Lewis said, there's no such thing as additive suffering, where if 100 people suffer that's 100 times the amount of suffering in the world, and that Christ took on a voluntary mission of suffering, not just in his death but also his day-to-day existence.

I think he might be wrong on this, in my observation, suffering seems to spread from one person to another like a disease.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I think he might be wrong on this, in my observation, suffering seems to spread from one person to another like a disease.

Happiness does that as well though.

 

[variant]

Happiness does that as well though.

Pleasure shared is doubled, pain shared is halved.

(Swedish proverb)

The problem I see with this is that some people share their pain by causing pain.

This doesn't really matter though since C.S. Lewis was making a significantly different point that I didn't understand from the poster I quoted.

 

[Deidre32]

When I was a believer, I had moments like you're having and frankly many believers do. I'm now an atheist but I will say that whether one follows a religion or not, we all question life and struggle with it, to make sense if it, at times.

Think it is very much part of being human. To struggle. To find joy. To question. To struggle. To find joy. Life ebbs and flows, and I had difficulties as a believer. Believing in God doesn't make like necessarily easier but it can help you in some ways, if you believe, to make sense of the difficulties.

If you have a love for God, don't be so hard on yourself. This life can be hard but there is much beauty to behold in it, as well. I don't think it's so much faltering in faith as much as it is being human.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Stacy Lee.

God does not allow us to be tempted more than we can handle; that is not a general statement about 'hard times'. Jesus Himself said we would be persecuted and ill used.

No, you do not 'have' to attend church. But why would you not? Being around other Christians and sharing your concerns and sorrows (perhaps in a more private than public setting) gives rise to prayers on your behalf and just plain concern.


The following questions are far more important for you to answer to yourself than to answer them out loud for anyone else. Including me. But you have to be honest between you and God. (God knows already, it's puerile to attempt to prevaricate with God.)

First question: WHY is your faith struggling? Are you having problems you cannot resolve? Or, since you mentioned OT and NT, are you having problems with the nature of God?

Second question: WHAT is the basis of your relationship with God? Do you surrender to God completely as a sinner, or do you maintain a barter relationship where you do certain things and He responds?

I suggest you face up to these issues. However, not on your own; in your prayers give your weakness to God, knowing He can guide you and support you through all things.

Consider the words of Job (13:15) about his problems and God's seeming indifference: Even if he slays me, I will hope in him...

 

[Received]

I think he might be wrong on this, in my observation, suffering seems to spread from one person to another like a disease.

I didn't get the idea across.

We must never make the problem of pain worse than it is by vague talk about the "unimaginable sum of human misery". Suppose that I have a toothache of intensity x: and suppose that you, who are seated beside me, also begin to have a toothache of intensity x. You may, if you choose, say that the total amount of pain in the room is now 2x. But you must remember that no one is suffering 2x: search all time and all space and you will not find that composite pain in anyone's consciousness. There is no such thing as a sum of suffering, for no one suffers it. When we have reached the maximum that a single person can suffer, we have, no doubt, reached something very horrible, but we have reached all the suffering there ever can be in the universe. The addition of a million fellow-sufferers adds no more pain. -- Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

 

[PsychoSarah]

Stacy Lee.

God does not allow us to be tempted more than we can handle; that is not a general statement about 'hard times'. Jesus Himself said we would be persecuted and ill used.

No, you do not 'have' to attend church. But why would you not? Being around other Christians and sharing your concerns and sorrows (perhaps in a more private than public setting) gives rise to prayers on your behalf and just plain concern.


The following questions are far more important for you to answer to yourself than to answer them out loud for anyone else. Including me. But you have to be honest between you and God. (God knows already, it's puerile to attempt to prevaricate with God.)

First question: WHY is your faith struggling? Are you having problems you cannot resolve? Or, since you mentioned OT and NT, are you having problems with the nature of God?

Second question: WHAT is the basis of your relationship with God? Do you surrender to God completely as a sinner, or do you maintain a barter relationship where you do certain things and He responds?

Sometimes, churches aren't such great places to foster faith. Not every church community is as supportive as you think, there are still people out there who gladly state that bad things will only happen to bad people, therefore, all suffering is deserved. They aren't particularly inclined to help.

Also, I have never heard of a sane person actually having any deity respond to them, if that were happening I certainly wouldn't be an atheist. No deity seems inclined to do anything at all. And viewing oneself as trash is a great way to destroy self esteem. Rather than be sorry for the mistakes you have made, rather people should seek to prevent them from happening in the future.

 

[variant]

I didn't get the idea across.

We must never make the problem of pain worse than it is by vague talk about the "unimaginable sum of human misery". Suppose that I have a toothache of intensity x: and suppose that you, who are seated beside me, also begin to have a toothache of intensity x. You may, if you choose, say that the total amount of pain in the room is now 2x. But you must remember that no one is suffering 2x: search all time and all space and you will not find that composite pain in anyone's consciousness. There is no such thing as a sum of suffering, for no one suffers it. When we have reached the maximum that a single person can suffer, we have, no doubt, reached something very horrible, but we have reached all the suffering there ever can be in the universe. The addition of a million fellow-sufferers adds no more pain. -- Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

Yeah, I found it after I wrote that and was replied to so I didn't bother to edit.

Thanks though.