In a few other threads John has claimed that the theory of evolution has been falsified. This thread is so John can present his evidence that falsifies evolution.
How about it John?
How about it John?
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Falsify evolution
- Thread starter Pete Harcoff
- Start date
lucaspa
Legend
I predict that this thread will not go far. John is simply trying to take what I claimed and others have been demonstrating about creationism -- it is falsified -- and trying to turn it around. A common tactic of creationists. Psychologists call it "projection". Take what you are uncomfortable with and project it onto someone else. In this case, take that creationism is falsified and try to project that onto evolution.
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Give the guy a chance here. I'd much like to see the evidence here. Either it will do nothing, or it will force a change in evolutionary theory, possibly to the point of discarding it completely and starting over. *shrugs* Somehow I doubt such a major change, but you could at least let him post his evidence before attacking him.
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Well it depends, some people here are great at dodging questions, so I predict that it may not even get a straight answer.
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Why should he or anyone else repeat something that would not be accepted here? It's a joke and the only reason this thread was started was to start another arguement. I knew it even before I clicked on the link. Let's see, there will be 5, 10, 20 or more people just waiting to jump on his first response. Does it take that many to refute one person?
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LewisWildermuth
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In scientific peer review, yes, it takes more than one person to falsify any point. I guess if you bothered to actualy see how science really works you would know that...
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JohnR7
Well-Known Member
I got a bone you guys can tear up. Here is a clip from one of your favorites: Hovind
Amid the hundreds of letters and e-mails we receive each week here at CSE, we occasionally receive one from an atheist, skeptic, critic, scoffer, or even an idiot or two. Several have posted web sites about me. I keep so busy with my hectic travel schedule that I normally do not take time to respond to them in writing more than once. There are so many people who want to hear the truths about creation that it is a waste of time to get distracted answering the scoffers. They will ask hundreds of questions or make hundreds of accusations. I am convinced that most of them don't really want an answer anyway, they want to tie up all my time and prevent the gospel from getting out. If I took the time to answer them all they would only ask a hundred more.
Amid the hundreds of letters and e-mails we receive each week here at CSE, we occasionally receive one from an atheist, skeptic, critic, scoffer, or even an idiot or two. Several have posted web sites about me. I keep so busy with my hectic travel schedule that I normally do not take time to respond to them in writing more than once. There are so many people who want to hear the truths about creation that it is a waste of time to get distracted answering the scoffers. They will ask hundreds of questions or make hundreds of accusations. I am convinced that most of them don't really want an answer anyway, they want to tie up all my time and prevent the gospel from getting out. If I took the time to answer them all they would only ask a hundred more.
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Yeah, we are all familiar with Hovind's excuses for not engaging his critics. What's your point, John? Are you trying to suggest that backing up your claim that evolution has been falsified would somehow hamper your ability to get the gospel out? Judging from the amount of time you spend here, I doubt you are flying all over the country, giving presentations to church groups and such.
Has it ever occurred to you that backing up your claims would go far toward establishing the sort of credibility you would need to spread the gospel to some of us sceptics at CF? You are adept at quoting the Bible and at making wild claims about scientific issues, but you've never demonstrated that you really understand the scientific issues you comment on. You have said on several occasions that evolution is falsified; I am not aware that it is. However, I'm not so emotionally invested in the theory that I can't be persuaded. I'm seriously interested in seeing what you think the evidence is that overturns evolution. Paul endeavored to be all things to all people in order to spread the gospel. Why don't you at least pretend to be someone who has respect for scientific method and the basic rules of polite debate and give us your argument in favor of creationism and against ToE. Who knows? You might be right. If so, you will have at least one person on this site (me) who will be more inclined to take your efforts at prosyletization with something more than a mountain-size grain of salt.
Has it ever occurred to you that backing up your claims would go far toward establishing the sort of credibility you would need to spread the gospel to some of us sceptics at CF? You are adept at quoting the Bible and at making wild claims about scientific issues, but you've never demonstrated that you really understand the scientific issues you comment on. You have said on several occasions that evolution is falsified; I am not aware that it is. However, I'm not so emotionally invested in the theory that I can't be persuaded. I'm seriously interested in seeing what you think the evidence is that overturns evolution. Paul endeavored to be all things to all people in order to spread the gospel. Why don't you at least pretend to be someone who has respect for scientific method and the basic rules of polite debate and give us your argument in favor of creationism and against ToE. Who knows? You might be right. If so, you will have at least one person on this site (me) who will be more inclined to take your efforts at prosyletization with something more than a mountain-size grain of salt.
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Smilin
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Hovind....
A self-serving 'false prophet' distorting the truth, confusing uninformed Christians for his personal gain. Those who distort science to fit there own pre-determined religious beliefs are liars and only harm Christianity.
Hovind isn't interested in debating his points, he's interested in getting paid for his seminars and selling his videos.
A self-serving 'false prophet' distorting the truth, confusing uninformed Christians for his personal gain. Those who distort science to fit there own pre-determined religious beliefs are liars and only harm Christianity.
Hovind isn't interested in debating his points, he's interested in getting paid for his seminars and selling his videos.
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euphoric
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Hovind uses the phrase "hectic travel schedule" in the same way that many evangelical apologists use the word "context." A convenient, all-encompassing dodge designed to avoid answering tough questions about their arguments.
As for John's assertions about evolution being falsified, I doubt that serious discussion of that can be achieved until he demonstrates at least a basic knowledge of two ideas:
1. The theory of evolution - what does it actually say, how does it work(in general terms, since this quetion is still honestly debated), and what predictions does it make about the natural world?
2. Falsification - by what criteria can any scientific theory, and evolutionary theory specifically, be falsified?
Until it becomes clear that John can and will address those two issues, I think getting into Pete's question is an excercise in futility. That being said, I will grab the popcorn, sit back and await the handwaving and posturing.
-brett
As for John's assertions about evolution being falsified, I doubt that serious discussion of that can be achieved until he demonstrates at least a basic knowledge of two ideas:
1. The theory of evolution - what does it actually say, how does it work(in general terms, since this quetion is still honestly debated), and what predictions does it make about the natural world?
2. Falsification - by what criteria can any scientific theory, and evolutionary theory specifically, be falsified?
Until it becomes clear that John can and will address those two issues, I think getting into Pete's question is an excercise in futility. That being said, I will grab the popcorn, sit back and await the handwaving and posturing.
-brett
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JohnR7
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Nothing, I don't have a point. I am just giving you guys something to tear to shreds.
Evolutionary theory has been watered down to the point where all they can say is: evolution is change.
"In the broadest sense, evolution is merely change, and so is all-pervasive; galaxies, languages, and political systems all evolve. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve."
So, what do you think, do individual evolve or not?
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JohnR7
Well-Known Member
There you go bubba, you just earned two IQ points, you win the prize you solved the riddle.
Most of the cr*p out there, that they call evolution, even what you find in text books, ain't evolution at all. The true scientist would easily falsify most of what people call evolution.
I agree, it is senseless to even have a discussion on evolution, if all your going to discuss is all the misconceptions of what it is. Usually in a attempt to simplify things so the average person can understand what they are saying, people so misrepresent evolutionary theory so as to create a false statement.
That is why so many people say: evolutionary theory is nonsense. Actually what they are refering to is what people call evolutionary theory which really is not evolutionary theory, it really is JUST nonsense being passed off as evolutionary theory.
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Yes, in the 'broadest sense.' I fail to see your problem here.
As you quoted, ontogeny is not evolution. Do individuals change? Not in the sense of biological evolution.
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JohnR7
Well-Known Member
That is how he makes a living. Do you think it is wrong for people to make a living writting books? None of Hovinds material is copy protected. There are very few people out there, who are willing to do that. You can copy his material and distribute any way you want. Can you show me anyone else that will allow that?
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Smilin
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Such as? Give those of us who work in the science fields the chance to falsify what you label 'cr@p'
Which people? You still haven't explained evolutionary theory yourself. Are you capable? You've still dodged this requirement.
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