Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I don't care who goes first.I'll make a deal with you. I will happily answer that question if you agree to answer your own question, and follow it up with why. Deal? I will even go first.
You list the consensus of scientific opinion, yet you told me earlier that you don't know if the analytic facts described by physics and chemistry refer to synthetic facts, so I assume you are not making a reality claim correct?I don't care who goes first.
I believe that the mind cannot exist independently of the brain because
1. It seems to be the scientific consensus, that "mind" is an emergent property of the physical brain rather than an independent entity.
2. It is consistent with my religious beliefs.
With respect to the scientific opinion, correct.You list the consensus of scientific opinion, yet you told me earlier that you don't know if the analytic facts described by physics and chemistry refer to synthetic facts, so I assume you are not making a reality claim correct?
Or something. But there is a reason that we swear to a belief in the resurrection of the body.I was actually only interested in your reasons if you said yes. Though your second answer has me very curious. Are you referring to soul sleep or something
But it always requires a medium of some sort.Information persists the loss of it's original medium.
How do you go from the idea of sleep, to lacking a mind though?With respect to the scientific opinion, correct.
Or something. But there is a reason that we swear to a belief in the resurrection of the body.
But it always requires a medium of some sort.
I don't. I don't even understand what you are talking about. Do our minds cease to exist when we sleep?How do you go from the idea of sleep, to lacking a mind though?
I don't think "matter" conveys quite the meaning you are looking for. As usually defined, it excludes photons, for example.Information, as we come to receive it, always does have a medium, but there is nothing about information that suggests that the medium of human information must be a brain, or even matter.
You stated that you don't believe the mind can exist apart from the body. I took that to have been derived from a religious belief in soul sleep. So what religious belief is that derived from?I don't. I don't even understand what you are talking about. Do our minds cease to exist when we sleep?
I don't think "matter" conveys quite the meaning you are looking for. As usually defined, it excludes photons, for example.
I never even heard of "soul sleep" until you brought it up. It appears to be some sort of Protestant notion, but I don't see any need for it.You stated that you don't believe the mind can exist apart from the body. I took that to have been derived from a religious belief in soul sleep. So what religious belief is that derived from?
Then photons can have no information associated with them? Poor Shannon.Yeah, I was actually thinking of photons and Morse code being excluded when I spoke of matter. I'm good with such a use of matter.
So what is this religious belief you refer to that is consistent with the idea that the mind cannot exist independently of the brain?I never even heard of "soul sleep" until you brought it up. It appears to be some sort of Protestant notion, but I don't see any need for it.
Then photons can have no information associated with them? Poor Shannon.
As a general concept it's called "Particular Judgement" and is very popular in one form or another. Personally, I see no need to believe that when we die we must somehow "wait around" for our glorified bodies just because the chronology of the Earth which we have left behind must play out. In other words, fast forward to the Last Trump.So what is this religious belief you refer to that is consistent with the idea that the mind cannot exist independently of the brain?
So this is the idea that you are judged by God immediatly. I can't tell from this theology how it relates to whether our mind can exist independently of our brain. So paint me a picture of how this works, a Christian dies and is cremated. Does that Christian lack a mind, is he immediately transferred to another brain? What happens in your view in respect to whether our minds can exist independently from a brain.As a general concept it's called "Particular Judgement" and is very popular in one form or another. Personally, I see no need to believe that when we die we must somehow "wait around" for our glorified bodies just because the chronology of the Earth which we have left behind must play out. In other words, fast forward to the Last Trump.
The same thing that happens if he dies and rots in the ground.So this is the idea that you are judged by God immediatly. I can't tell from this theology how it relates to whether our mind can exist independently of our brain. So paint me a picture of how this works, a Christian dies and is cremated.
It means that it doesn't necessarily need to.Does that Christian lack a mind, is he immediately transferred to another brain? What happens in your view in respect to whether our minds can exist independently from a brain.
Yes, in the glorified body promised us. Of course, I don't know that it happens that way, but I always thought so, so when I heard that scientists say that the mind doesn't exist without a material substrate it caused me no particular difficulty--that was my only point. Mind you, I am not urging this view on anyone else, but I really don't see why it is difficult to comprehend.I guess I'll have to ask one question at a time.
1)Does the Christian in this scenario (body dead and cremated) have a mind? (Yes/No)
But if the mind is the brain, then the glorified body is it's own mind. So that is kind of a clone of the Christian right? Where is the persistence of identity?Yes, in the glorified body promised us. Of course, I don't know that it happens that way, but I always thought so, so when I heard that scientists say that the mind doesn't exist without a material substrate it caused me no particular difficulty--that was my only point. Mind you, I am not urging this view on anyone else, but I really don't see why it is difficult to comprehend.
Or the mind moves from one to the other, the new body being created on a "just in time" basis. I'm sure that none of us knows here below how any of this works. All I am trying to tell you is that, for me, the scientific notion that the mind is an emergent property of the brain does not cause me any concern.But if the mind is the brain, then the glorified body is it's own mind.
That's fine, you can believe what you like about it. It's not as if it was a matter of essential doctrine.I'm not really a denominational person, but as I understand it the glorified body will not occur until much later.
In other words, I would have to be able to rationally conclude that what I am experiencing is reality. I don't know how to do that without a premise. I feel I have made my position clear on this question.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?