False Doctines

[eoe]

While the Eastern Orthodox Priests do wear vestments and we also adorn our temples our priests do not drive Bentley or Maybach cars. The Vestments and the Icons etc. are not the personal property of the priest.
Anyone know what a priest at a large parish is paid? I know that at the small ones they are not paid at all and have to have jobs outside the church in order to eat.

top 10 signs that your pastor is a crook:
1 - undisclosed pay
2 - body guards (wait.... what was that about faith Rev?)
3 - closed financials at the church (how much was in the building fund?)
4 - closed financials for the pastor
5 - giant flashy street signs
6 - pastor's car is worth more than the average parishoner's house
7 - they never take up collections for outside charities
8 - when a rish parishoner is ill the pastor visits - poor and the associate minister visits
9 - jumbotron screens
10 - unable to get a face to face appointment with the pastor

Something of note. The false teachers of today are mainly interested in money. What will be really scary is that there is a false teacher coming that will have no desire for wealth at all. He will be the hard one to spot.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

top 10 signs that your pastor is a crook:
1 - undisclosed pay
2 - body guards (wait.... what was that about faith Rev?)
3 - closed financials at the church (how much was in the building fund?)
4 - closed financials for the pastor
5 - giant flashy street signs
6 - pastor's car is worth more than the average parishoner's house
7 - they never take up collections for outside charities
8 - when a rish parishoner is ill the pastor visits - poor and the associate minister visits
9 - jumbotron screens
10 - unable to get a face to face appointment with the pastor

.

Although this list is funny, it is sad that there are pastor's like this.

 

[ScottBot]

Although this list is funny, it is sad that there are pastor's like this.

This sounds like McClean Bible Church where I live.

 

[Full_Moon]

Ask yourself these questions:
Does the leader of your church where gold i.e. gold crosses, gold alters, gold robes and rings?
Do you attend a church in a building that cost hundreds of thousands if not millions$?
Does your church organization own millions of dollars in real estate, investment property, and real assets?
Do you pass by the homeless and impoverished on your way to your expensive church/cathedral?
Do you use the scriptures that speak of being poor, impoverished, homeless, hungry, etc. as proof that prosperity is not the will God? If so, do you follow these verses that you use?
Have you sold all you have and given it to the poor?
Are you rich by NT standards?
Do you have no place to lay your head?
Do you practice what you preach?
Do you do the very things you condemn others of doing?

Are you a false teacher?
And a hypocrite to boot?

Don't get me wrong: money loving/ seeking/ theiving false preachers wreck a lot of good thing. I am not arguing against the 'signs of a false preacher' or anything, but I am quite confidently certain that many here are going to far and therefore falling into error (reacting to one false doctrine with another)

False doctrine: It is wrong to be prosperous. (it is probably wrong to spell it that way as well )

Abraham, Jacob, Issac more and more and more. I'm not saying we should prostitute ourselves to false doctrines of money worship (what health and wealth appears to be IMHO), but it is definately false to say that prosperity is wrong.

I would ask whether the writer of this post lives as the poorest of the poor. Why don't you sell your computer and use the money to feed some more poor???

Please don't take offence, and I know many thing money is the root of all evil. But that is not scriptural: "Love of money" is the root of all evil (or great evil, or whatever it actually says).

If it was wrong to be prosperous, then it was wrong of God to make so many biblical figures (and other godly men and women) prosperous. Will you accuse God of wrong-doing?

That is why I say thinking prosperity is wrong is a very false doctrine. Resulting from a wordly interpretation of spiritual words.

Hey, better to hate money (however stupid that is) than to love it... I think....

Yet if you love money, better to give it all away (cut off the hand that sins)

btw, who can condemn anyone here for having a computer and not selling it to feed the poor?? Unless it is against your conscience... then you better listen to that and not me.

Cheers
-dust of the earth.

PS. Please don't take offence (I realize I am blunt), but if anyone here takes offence to me calling what I have a false doctrine, don't even start justifying yourself in having a computer (or whatever it is) to me... just don't even start.... I don't want to hear it. I'll enjoy my Christian freedom to be prosperous OR poor thanks, whatever is profitable for godliness.

 

[Evee]

While the Eastern Orthodox Priests do wear vestments and we also adorn our temples our priests do not drive Bentley or Maybach cars. The Vestments and the Icons etc. are not the personal property of the priest.
Anyone know what a priest at a large parish is paid? I know that at the small ones they are not paid at all and have to have jobs outside the church in order to eat.

top 10 signs that your pastor is a crook:
1 - undisclosed pay
2 - body guards (wait.... what was that about faith Rev?)
3 - closed financials at the church (how much was in the building fund?)
4 - closed financials for the pastor
5 - giant flashy street signs
6 - pastor's car is worth more than the average parishoner's house
7 - they never take up collections for outside charities
8 - when a rish parishoner is ill the pastor visits - poor and the associate minister visits
9 - jumbotron screens
10 - unable to get a face to face appointment with the pastor

Something of note. The false teachers of today are mainly interested in money. What will be really scary is that there is a false teacher coming that will have no desire for wealth at all. He will be the hard one to spot.

That is such a good post.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

I agree with you 100%
Do you think those who pervert scripture and use it to promote poverty as a virtue will agree? Anyone who quotes the statements of Jesus re:"sell all you have and give to the poor" as proof that poverty is good, and have not done it themselves, are hypocrites because they do not practice what they preach. That is my point.

Don't get me wrong: money loving/ seeking/ theiving false preachers wreck a lot of good thing. I am not arguing against the 'signs of a false preacher' or anything, but I am quite confidently certain that many here are going to far and therefore falling into error (reacting to one false doctrine with another)

False doctrine: It is wrong to be prosperous. (it is probably wrong to spell it that way as well )

Abraham, Jacob, Issac more and more and more. I'm not saying we should prostitute ourselves to false doctrines of money worship (what health and wealth appears to be IMHO), but it is definately false to say that prosperity is wrong.

I would ask whether the writer of this post lives as the poorest of the poor. Why don't you sell your computer and use the money to feed some more poor???

Please don't take offence, and I know many thing money is the root of all evil. But that is not scriptural: "Love of money" is the root of all evil (or great evil, or whatever it actually says).

If it was wrong to be prosperous, then it was wrong of God to make so many biblical figures (and other godly men and women) prosperous. Will you accuse God of wrong-doing?

That is why I say thinking prosperity is wrong is a very false doctrine. Resulting from a wordly interpretation of spiritual words.

Hey, better to hate money (however stupid that is) than to love it... I think....

Yet if you love money, better to give it all away (cut off the hand that sins)

btw, who can condemn anyone here for having a computer and not selling it to feed the poor?? Unless it is against your conscience... then you better listen to that and not me.

Cheers
-dust of the earth.

PS. Please don't take offence (I realize I am blunt), but if anyone here takes offence to me calling what I have a false doctrine, don't even start justifying yourself in having a computer (or whatever it is) to me... just don't even start.... I don't want to hear it. I'll enjoy my Christian freedom to be prosperous OR poor thanks, whatever is profitable for godliness.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

I am sure the "prospertiy preachers" use similar logic to jsutify their riches, as did the pharisees.

Any of us who uphold Christ's teachings as the standard, yet fall short of them are hypocrites to some degree. We must all grow to see ourselves as the chief of sinners, realizing that we can not boast in ourselves, knowing without God we would parish in our sins.

I disagree that our church buildings cannot be ornate, though. Consider the exacting specs God gave for the Ark of the Covenant and O.T. temple. When it comes to God's holy temple, which now in the new covenant represents heaven on earth, uniting men to Christ, it is appropriate to have a building which reflects that mystical reality. In protestants churches, which function quite differently, being primarily a meeting place to worship and receive teaching, rather than receive the Holy Mysteries of Christ, which unite us to him, I can see not needing anything fancy--your view is affected by how your churches function. If we were just meeting to study the Bible and sing together, then I would agree any simple building would be fine.

You may not be aware of this, but the entire nation of Russian was converted to Christianity, partly do the the experience of a royal envoy who was searching for the true religion and stumbled into the magnificent Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. When they returned to the Russian Tsar, they told him that they didn't know whether they were on heaven or earth when they worshipped there. As foreign as it may seem to you, as a protestant, even our architecture magnifies God, and can lead people to Christ.

Also our priests wear fancy vestments, only during the holy services, not to be flashy and look rich, but as a symbol of the glory of Christ, whom they represent. Unlike some prosperity teachers, they don't go around in everyday life covered in jewelry and showing off other materialistic things, like limo's and mansions. Most are quite poor, like myself, by American standards (which would still be well off by N.T. or even current world standards).

These symbols do not diminish our responsibility to the poor, nor are the poor neglected by us because our temple is embellished with nice things. The money put into the temple is a sacrifice to God, and it does contribute to the experience people have when worshipping Him--aiding their salvation. Remember what Christ said about the poor, when expensive oil was poured on His head before His crucifixion? Judas, who carried the purse, objected saying the oil could have been sold and the money given to the poor, but Jesus corrected him saying that the poor would be with you always. There are those sacrifices that are appropriately made unto God, and those personal sacrifices of wealth that we should also make to give alms to the poor. Both sacrifices are clearly pleasing to God.

Basil

 

[vanshan]

I am sure the "prospertiy preachers" use similar logic to jsutify their riches, as did the pharisees.

Only God can judge the hearts of man, so some may build up their temples to pat themselves on the back, but I know the experience of worshipping God in such surroundings can inspire faith, leading many to salvation . . . so if it can have that affect, no one's opinion matters. God can use many things to draw man unto Himself.

Basil

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

While the Eastern Orthodox Priests do wear vestments and we also adorn our temples our priests do not drive Bentley or Maybach cars. The Vestments and the Icons etc. are not the personal property of the priest.
Anyone know what a priest at a large parish is paid? I know that at the small ones they are not paid at all and have to have jobs outside the church in order to eat.

top 10 signs that your pastor is a crook:
1 - undisclosed pay
2 - body guards (wait.... what was that about faith Rev?)
3 - closed financials at the church (how much was in the building fund?)
4 - closed financials for the pastor
5 - giant flashy street signs
6 - pastor's car is worth more than the average parishoner's house
7 - they never take up collections for outside charities
8 - when a rish parishoner is ill the pastor visits - poor and the associate minister visits
9 - jumbotron screens
10 - unable to get a face to face appointment with the pastor

Something of note. The false teachers of today are mainly interested in money. What will be really scary is that there is a false teacher coming that will have no desire for wealth at all. He will be the hard one to spot.

Kudos! You have really nailed it eoe.

Your brother in Christ.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

Perhaps that is why God uses prosperity preachers?
Unless we can feel free to judge their hearts?

Only God can judge the hearts of man, so some may build up their temples to pat themselves on the back, but I know the experience of worshipping God in such surroundings can inspire faith, leading many to salvation . . . so if it can have that affect, no one's opinion matters. God can use many things to draw man unto Himself.

Basil

 

[stray bullet]

The teaching of the "infallibility of the Pope" was only codified by the RCC in 1870, and although they claim it was always believed, it cannot be traced back to the Early Church Fathers, in fact, their writings seem to clearly refute such a teaching. .

http://www.fisheaters.com/easternfathers.html

And the Council of Chalcedon made it clear in 451 AD:
"We received directions at the hands of the most blessed and apostolic bishop of the Roman city, which is the head of all the churches"

"Paschasinus the most reverend bishop, holding the place of the Apostolic See, said: We cannot go counter to the decrees of the most blessed and apostolic bishop ["Pope" for "bishop" in the Latin], who governs the Apostolic See, nor against the ecclesiastical canons nor the patristic traditions."

"Wherefore the most holy and blessed Leo, archbishop of the great and elder Rome, through us, and through this present most holy synod together with the thrice blessed and all-glorious Peter the Apostle, who is the rock and foundation of the Catholic Church, and the foundation of the orthodox faith,"

Cyprian too must have been confused:
"The other Apostles were indeed what Peter was, but the primacy is given to Peter, and the Church and the chair is shown to be one. And all are pastors, but the flock is shown to be one, which is fed by all the Apostles with one mind and heart. He that holds not this unity of the Church, does he think that he holds the faith? He who deserts the chair of Peter, upon whom the Church is founded, is he confident that he is in the Church?" - Saint Cyprian of Carthage (251 A.D.)

According to Saint Cyprian, a north African bishop and martyr, it would seem that a false teacher is anyone that tries to dissolve that unity and desert the Chair of Peter, the See of Rome.

 

[stray bullet]

Here's a relevant one:
[font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]"Moses was succeeded by Peter, who had committed to his hands the new Church of Christ, and the true priesthood." - [/font][font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]St. Macarius of Egypt (371)

[/font][font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]"O Holy Head, Christ our God hath destined thy Apostolic See to be an immovable foundation and a pillar of the Faith. For thou art, as the Divine Word truly saith, Peter, and on thee as a foundation-stone have the pillars of the Church been fixed" - [/font][font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Sergius, Metropolitain of Cyprus (649)

This stuff was hardly made up in 1870, it's always been around.
[/font]

 

[stray bullet]

. <remove, double post>

 

[ScottBot]

http://www.fisheaters.com/easternfathers.html

And the Council of Chalcedon made it clear in 451 AD:
"We received directions at the hands of the most blessed and apostolic bishop of the Roman city, which is the head of all the churches"

"Paschasinus the most reverend bishop, holding the place of the Apostolic See, said: We cannot go counter to the decrees of the most blessed and apostolic bishop ["Pope" for "bishop" in the Latin], who governs the Apostolic See, nor against the ecclesiastical canons nor the patristic traditions."

"Wherefore the most holy and blessed Leo, archbishop of the great and elder Rome, through us, and through this present most holy synod together with the thrice blessed and all-glorious Peter the Apostle, who is the rock and foundation of the Catholic Church, and the foundation of the orthodox faith,"

Cyprian too must have been confused:
"The other Apostles were indeed what Peter was, but the primacy is given to Peter, and the Church and the chair is shown to be one. And all are pastors, but the flock is shown to be one, which is fed by all the Apostles with one mind and heart. He that holds not this unity of the Church, does he think that he holds the faith? He who deserts the chair of Peter, upon whom the Church is founded, is he confident that he is in the Church?" - Saint Cyprian of Carthage (251 A.D.)

According to Saint Cyprian, a north African bishop and martyr, it would seem that a false teacher is anyone that tries to dissolve that unity and desert the Chair of Peter, the See of Rome.

I wonder how long it will be before you are accused of proof-texting and taking statements out of context.

 

[stray bullet]

I wonder how long it will be before you are accused of proof-texting and taking statements out of context.

It's interesting how often claims are made here that the current role of the Pope was just something made up in the 19th Century and had no support in the past. These are the same tactics used by protestants when they say such and such belief only existed after a particular date because that's when it was made a doctrine. They know better than that and that that is not how the Church works. The bible wasn't canonized until the 5th Century, does that mean it wasn't believed in until then?

If someone wants to dispute the truth of the belief, that's one thing- but to act like it never existed until 1870 is silly.

 

[Prophet01]

This should be quite biggg topic for me, and a one I should speak from the heart about if I am to live upto my username.

How do we tell a false prophet from a true prophet.

Quite simple....... IF (Yes that is a big if)

We can know with confidence who is and who is not a false prophet If we know how to tell if the person we are listening to is being led by the spirit of truth (the holy spirit) or a spirit of deception (unholy spirit)

"Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravaging wolves."

Its quite clear we can not tell these people from outward appearnce or outward worship devotion to God, infact they look like us, act like us and talk like us, even smell like us.

"Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many"

Okay it is clear from this that there is a heck of a lot of these false prophets about and a lot of us are decieved.

"For many were giving false testimony against Him, but the testimonies did not agree. "

From this we know that these many many false prophets contradict one another, this is sign number one that their testimony about God, Christ and the holy spirit are false. From this we know that those of us who have been decieved will also believe in many contradicting testimonies.

" I will continue to do what I am doing, in order to cut off the opportunity of those who want an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in what they are boasting about. 13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself is disguised as an angel of light."

Ok from this I gather that these false prophets disguse themselves as our pastors and ministers and pretend to be apostles of Christ, they set themselves us by their own endevour and not by the wishes of Christ.

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies"

from this we can see that these false prophets, teachers and false apostles will teach destructive doctrines.

"For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe what is false, 12 so that all will be condemned--those who did not believe the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness. "

It seems our false prophets dont realise they are false prophets , dont realise they are false teachers and false apostles, they have been given a strong delusion by God so they will believe what is false simply because they rejected what is true.

"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. "

We see that these false prophets are motivated by a spirit that is not from God and that we too can be motivated by a spirit of falsehood that decieves us into thinking we are being led by the spirit of truth, that coupled with a strong delusion would also make us believe their lies.

So now that we see we are in great peril, that even we ourselves maybe false prophets by listening to and proclaiming what the spirit of falsehood is saying to us as he decieves us in disgising himself as the holy spirit or perhaps we maybe listening to a false prophet and have been decieved by him or her... on that note we come back to the age old question of how we can know what is of the spirit of truth and what is of the spirit of falsehood.


Thus says john the apostle, regarding the true apostles and those who follow the true apostoles

We are from God. Anyone who knows God listens to us; anyone who is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deception.


From this we see that we must listen to the true apostolic chruch with true apostolic succesion and we must listen to those who have been taught by them and teach in their name and see if we have been listening to the holy spirit or the spirit of deception and we must not let pride or delusion stand in our way ..

if your pastor or minister is not ordained by the those who have succeded the true apostles, the likelyhood is they are false prophets.

If you have been following a spirit that leads you away from the fellowship that follows the true apostles, those who have a line of succesion back to the time of peter and the first apostles, you are probably listening to a spirit of falsehood.

If you a preaching what this spirit has said to you, you are probably a false prophet.









" The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan's working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders, 10 and with every unrighteous deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth in order to be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe what is false, 12 so that all will be condemned--those who did not believe the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness. "

 

[stray bullet]

I wonder how long it will be before you are accused of proof-texting and taking statements out of context.

I don't even comment on this one, it's a double whammy:
[font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]
"If the Roman See recognizes Pyrrhus to be not only a reprobate but a heretic, it is certainly plain that everyone who anathematizes those who have rejected Pyrrhus also anathematizes the See of Rome, that is, he anathematizes the Catholic Church. I need hardly add that he excommunicates himself also, if indeed he is in communion with the Roman See and the Catholic Church of God ...Let him hasten before all things to satisfy the Roman See, for if it is satisfied, all will agree in calling him pious and orthodox. For he only speaks in vain who thinks he ought to pursuade or entrap persons like myself, and does not satisfy and implore the blessed Pope of the most holy Catholic Church of the Romans, that is, the Apostolic See, which is from the incarnate of the Son of God Himself, and also all the holy synods, accodring to the holy canons and definitions has received universal and surpreme dominion, authority, and power of binding and loosing over all the holy churches of God throughout the whole world. (Maximus, Letter to Peter, in Mansi x, 692).[/font][font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif] - St. Maximus the Confessor (c. 650)
[/font]

 

[Quijote]

Ask yourself these questions:
Does the leader of your church where gold i.e. gold crosses, gold alters, gold robes and rings?

My parish priest does not. The Bishop wears a gold cross (but I think it was a present from his parents when he was ordained bishop. The pope wears a gold ring, has gold crosses for when celebrating mass, but otherwise he just wears linen and cotton

Do you attend a church in a building that cost hundreds of thousands if not millions$?

nope.

Does your church organization own millions of dollars in real estate, investment property, and real assets?

millions in real estate INVESTMENT property? no. Millions of dollars worth of Churches, yup!

Do you pass by the homeless and impoverished on your way to your expensive church/cathedral?

Not many homeless in this part of WI. So no. But there are many impoverished people in Mexico, where I grew up

Do you use the scriptures that speak of being poor, impoverished, homeless, hungry, etc. as proof that prosperity is not the will God? If so, do you follow these verses that you use?

I don't know if material wealth/lack thereof is the will of God. however, we do contribute to several charities.

Have you sold all you have and given it to the poor?

Nope. I might be Catholic, but I'm not a Franciscan

Are you rich by NT standards?

I don't know what standards the NT has for being rich. However, I do know that the Democrats think I'm rich (or at least they tax me as if I were )

Do you have no place to lay your head?

Do you mean a pillow? a bed? a house? yes to all three

Do you practice what you preach?

I don't preach....well...maybe only to my kids ...and yes, I do.

Do you do the very things you condemn others of doing?

Unfortunately I do

Are you a false teacher?
And a hypocrite to boot?

I used to be a teacher, but not anymore ... I been known to be a hypocrite from time to time

 

[Quijote]

Quite simple....... IF (Yes that is a big if)

Nah, that's not a bif IF,

THis is a big if:

IF

 

[*Starlight*]

I believe that there is no way to be sure if a certain doctrine is true or false, but I believe that if a doctrine causes or justifies doing something harmful, then it's probably wrong...