falling away

[travis97]

I was saved and baptized at age 12 and imediatly felt a yearning to witness. 22 years later later a bout of drugs and alcohol low social skills etc. I still pray everyday and go to church. Just wondering if my innocence is lost. I wanna feel as I did when I first believed but find it tougher now. I realize this is probly not possible. LOL thoughts?

 

[trentlogain2]

I was saved and baptized at age 12 and imediatly felt a yearning to witness. 22 years later later a bout of drugs and alcohol low social skills etc. I still pray everyday and go to church. Just wondering if my innocence is lost. I wanna feel as I did when I first believed but find it tougher now. I realize this is probly not possible. LOL thoughts?

the Lord gave me a word after reading this post, travis. i'm going to give that to you before commenting further. disclaimer: i don't think i'm a prophet, but just a heralder of God's word.

romans 16:19

now a few questions.. have you obeyed the Lord's command to examine yourself to see if you are truly in the faith, whether in the church in your own personal time?

i don't know exactly what you mean by referring to your innocence being lost, so you may or may not want to explain that. to get to the crux of your post, you said that you want to feel like you did when you were first saved. the good news is you can get back to that part. the greater news is that its possible to go beyond that initial feeling and go on to greater heights of love and grace in the Lord Jesus Christ. it's going to take confession and genuine repentance on your part. im praying that the Lord convicts you and grants you the enablement to do these things i've shared. God bless!

 

[Skala]

I was saved and baptized at age 12 and imediatly felt a yearning to witness. 22 years later later a bout of drugs and alcohol low social skills etc. I still pray everyday and go to church. Just wondering if my innocence is lost. I wanna feel as I did when I first believed but find it tougher now. I realize this is probly not possible. LOL thoughts?

You've never been innocent, that's why you need Christ

So keep on trusting Him above all things.

 

[travis97]

Well I meant innocent as a child believes. Just took it at face value. I seem to be more skeptical now that I'm older toward things. Thankful for the hope of as u said reconnecting n my faith. Daily renewed!

 

[Skala]

Well I meant innocent as a child believes. Just took it at face value. I seem to be more skeptical now that I'm older toward things. Thankful for the hope of as u said reconnecting n my faith. Daily renewed!

You gotta remember that the Bible never describes faith as how we feel about something. It never assigns importance to our mood or emotions or feelings about our faithfulness. Our own emotions are fickle, and fallen, and not reliable. That is why God gave us the Bible. It is the source of truth that we need to rely on.

So how you feel about your faith is irrelevant. Don't trust your feelings. Trust in Christ alone.

 

[travis97]

Amen

 

[Dan61861]

I myself fell away. I can look back and pin point the problem I had. I stopped reading God's word. I than stopped praying. I still did pray, here and there but I didn't take everything to the Lord. Today, I read and pray every day. The more of myself I give to the Lord, the more I find him close to my side. Praise God, for He is good.
Pray my friend, my brother. Lay it all at the feet of Christ, he does hear your prayers.
In Christ
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Daniel[/FONT]

 

[branchofthevine]

He will take you back with open arms, just like the father in the prodigal son parable, and truly as said above, trust in Jesus, not in feelings.

 

[Emmy]

Dear travis97. In Matthew 22, Jesus tells us that the two Commandments:
1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds.
2) love our neighbour as ourselves; on those two, hang all the Law and the Prophets. Love is very important to God. To show God that you truly Love Him,
start following these Commandments. Everything you say or do, or stand up for, will be from love and compassion. God will notice your sincere efforts, and
God will approve and bless you.
Jesus will give you His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower you with His Love, also. Keep asking and receiving: (Matthew 7, verses 7-10,"
then thank God, and keep sharing all Love and Joy with your neighbour.
Keep asking and loving and sharing, and thanking God and showing your Love
for God and your neighbour. ( all you know and all you meet, friends and not friends) Jesus our Saviour will help and guide you all the way: Jesus Is The Way. I say this with love, travis. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[travis97]

Thanks Emmy! It is easy to view the Bible from those two commandments and it makes it all make sense. Although it is an everyday process. Thank u for the kind words..

 

[98cwitr]

Travis, Paul Washer addresses this in one of his sermons

Regeneration v. The Idolatry of Decisional "Evangelism" (Paul Washer @ the Deeper Conference 2008) - YouTube

 

[grandma dolittle]

Travis,
I too fell away from Christ for several years, but thank God I came back to him. This time when I fell on my knees and repented of all my sins to God and when I arose, it was sweeter than the first time. I have felt closer to God than I ever have. He has given me the peace and contentment I never had before. I talk to him continually and I love reading his word. I love talking to other Christians.

I do not have anything in my house that I would be ashamed of if Christ walked in my door. Things I read are Christian based books, Christian movies, etc. I listen to a gospel station on the radio. All this has helped me feel God in my life and he takes care of me.

For that innocent feeling of a child.... repent, pray, live for Christ. here's a hug for you.


grandma

 

[travis97]

Very encouraging. Praise God.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

But what happened to "once saved, always saved"?

Just asking.

 

[grandma dolittle]

I don't believe OSAS because we sin daily and without forgiveness of those sins we can never enter heaven because no sin will be allowed there.

grandma

 

[SoulBap6]

I don't believe OSAS because we sin daily and without forgiveness of those sins we can never enter heaven because no sin will be allowed there.

grandma

What do you do with this scripture:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

If you are seal when you get saved, telling me how in the world are you going to be unsaved?

Can you open the hand of God, who holds us and cause him to let you go?

 

[OzSpen]

What do you do with this scripture:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

If you are seal when you get saved, telling me how in the world are you going to be unsaved?

Can you open the hand of God, who holds us and cause him to let you go?

Quoting Ephesians 4:30 as you have done as a guarantee of eternal security is dangerous. Here's why:

In Romans 4:11 the same word for "sealed" is used as in Eph 4:30. If this means an unbreakable and permanent seal of eternal security, then the same must apply to Rom. 4:11 - an unbreakable and permanent seal of circumcision.

But that cannot be the situation. What does Rom. 4:11 state?

He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well (ESV).

We know from Scripture that the sealing of circumcision could be broken through unbelief (see Rom. 11:20-23 where circumcised Jews could be broken off through unbelief). See also Rom. 2:25-29.

So, sealing of circumcision, as in Rom. 4:11, depends on continued faith. As long as a person continues to believe that person is sealed.

So, because a person is "sealed" does not guarantee continued faithfulness. It does not guarantee an eternal destiny that is guaranteed, signed sealed and delivered and that such a person can never fall away.

We have the same kind of situation in John 10:27-28:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand (ESV).

I had a person say to me at church recently that he became convinced of eternal security by accepting what John 10:28 stated - nobody could pluck believers out of the Father's hand.

However, what are the conditions for not being plucked/snatched out of the Father's hand? The words that I have highlighted in vv 27-28 are all in the Greek present tense. So the meaning is continuous action as the Greek tense emphases the KIND of action more than the time of action.

Therefore the meaning of those 4 words in bold is: 'My sheep continue to hear my voice, and I continue to know them, and they continue to follow me. 28 I continue to give them eternal life....'

There is no guarantee of eternal security without continuing belief - continuing to hear, continuing to know, and continuing to follow. What is God's guarantee for this continuing belief? God continues to give them eternal life.

That is the biblical teaching on eternal security. Perseverance of the saints is necessary for sealing to be guaranteed.

Oz

 

[P1LGR1M]

Originally Posted by SoulBap6

What do you do with this scripture:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

If you are seal when you get saved, telling me how in the world are you going to be unsaved?

Can you open the hand of God, who holds us and cause him to let you go?
​

Quoting Ephesians 4:30 as you have done as a guarantee of eternal security is dangerous. Here's why:

In Romans 4:11 the same word for "sealed" is used as in Eph 4:30. If this means an unbreakable and permanent seal of eternal security, then the same must apply to Rom. 4:11 - an unbreakable and permanent seal of circumcision.

Apparently it is thought that the guarantee, which is the Spirit of God Himself, is not a guarantee.


In view is the "seal of the righteousness of faith." Is there a scriptural basis which calls into question that this seal, or Abraham's faith is ever called into question, as the seal of God on the believer is?



Back up, and place the statement back into context:


Romans 4

King James Version (KJV)



10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

How was what reckoned?

Circumcision? Is that what Paul is trying to convey? No...


3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Let's not put the cart before the horse...that is Paul's primary point. Before the sign that Abraham believed and it was counted unto him as righteousness, Abraham believed and it was counted unto him as righteousness.

Consider:


6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Again imputed righteousness is in view. We have the example of Abraham, and also the statement of David, and once again in view is imputed righteousness, without works, iniquity and sin forgiven and covered.


8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Christ being come and sin atoned for in completion to the point where further atonement is not necessary, including any atonement that man believes he must contribute to the work of the Cross, the statement is simple:

Blessed is the man to whom God will not impute sin. The corollary being, "Blessed is that man to whom righteousness is imputed.


9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.


And Abraham, being a Gentile, is the perfect example of the Lord imputing righteousness, because it was impossible for Abarham to keep the Covenant of Law which was not yet established.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:


The seal of the sign of circumcision is not what made Abraham a believer, it was...a sign of an internal truth, declared by God.

Circumcision as a sign was not even a necessity for the Gentile, either they believed or they did not. Likewise, neither did the sign evidence faith.

In Romans 4:11 the same word for "sealed" is used as in Eph 4:30. If this means an unbreakable and permanent seal of eternal security, then the same must apply to Rom. 4:11 - an unbreakable and permanent seal of circumcision.

It is simply a fact that Abraham's faith is declared by God to be true, so much that Abraham is said to have been justified, his belief accounted unto him as righteousness.

That, not circumcision, is what is in view.



Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

But that cannot be the situation. What does Rom. 4:11 state?

He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well (ESV).

We know from Scripture that the sealing of circumcision could be broken through unbelief (see Rom. 11:20-23 where circumcised Jews could be broken off through unbelief). See also Rom. 2:25-29.

Not for Abraham. And not for "all them that believe."

In Romans 11 we see a national unbelief, not individual belief and works.

In Romans 4:11 Paul makes it clear that circumcision is not necessary, therefore we see that the faith and belief of either Gentile or Jew is in view, regardless of circumcision. It is imputed righteousness that is in view.

Why we would think that circumcision can be compared to the Spirit of God, promised to all who have been born again, I don't know.


2 Corinthians 1:21-22

King James Version (KJV)


21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.



Circumcision was a sign, which could be undergone by all, but the indwelling of the Spirit of God is the work of God, not of men.

Either this statement is true, or it is not.

So, sealing of circumcision, as in Rom. 4:11, depends on continued faith.

And what scripture teaches is that "continued faith" was not possible for men, for this reason Christ died on the Cross, and established the New Covenant.

The sign of circumcision is shown by Paul to be an outward sign, whereas the circumcision of the heart...is not.


Romans 2:28-29

King James Version (KJV)


28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



One can say they are circumcised, but the outward appearance reveals the truth. Just as one can say they are saved, but the outward appearance usually gives indication of the truth.


26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?


The physical circumcision is, like Christian Baptism, a sign of a supposed inward work.

Abraham was considered righteous because he believed, and was then given the sign as an indication. The believer today, if he does not have the Holy Spirit, does not even belong to God.

So, sealing of circumcision, as in Rom. 4:11, depends on continued faith.

When one was circumcized...it was a done deal. The Lord did not continue to circumcize Abraham, nor does He continue to "circumcize the heart." It is a state one is on, or one is not. The Holy Spirit is given to those who already believe, just as the sign of circumcision was given to Abraham.

So it is not a matter of "Abraham would continue to be circumcized as long as he continued to believe." Abraham was circumcized as a sign of his faith.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

As long as a person continues to believe that person is sealed.

Just not a biblical statement.

The New Birth by which we are made new creations, is never seen in scripture to be a result of works, nor is it ever saidf in scripture to be undone.

This is the reason why the Spirit of God is said to be the earnest. While we are in this flesh, this unredeemed body, the only guarantee we have is the indwelling of God which was promised to them that believe.

As long as a person continues to believe that person is sealed.

If one is born again...they will continue to believe.

So, because a person is "sealed" does not guarantee continued faithfulness.

Actually it does. The indwelling of God is the very reason why a born again believer can continue to believe, and to obey God:


Ezekiel 36:27

King James Version (KJV)


27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.



John 16:13

King James Version (KJV)


13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

It does not guarantee an eternal destiny that is guaranteed, signed sealed and delivered and that such a person can never fall away.

But it does:


Hebrews 10:10-14

King James Version (KJV)


10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



You can't continually be made complete...forever.


Continued...