Fallen Angel's Seed

Jipsah · May 4, 2022

Sorn said:
But they could take on physical form, and in this case they took on human form.

Sounds more and more like Greek mythology.

Jipsah · May 4, 2022

Anybody else noticed that there's a whole new mythology now centered on "nephilim"? Strange that the OT says so little about them, while the NT says almost nothing at all, innit? Oh, I forgot the Book of Enoch , the writing that explains to us that the sun rises in the east, heads west all day, then turns north for a bit, then heads back east at night so as to come up again the next morning. Yep, that's where I'm going hunting for transcendent truth, yes indeedy.

Bother a bunch of "nephilim". If our Lord didn't didn't think they were important enough to expound on, then I'm not going to worry about them.

Sorn · May 5, 2022

Jipsah said:
Sounds more and more like Greek mythology.

Or is it that Greek mythology is more & more based on the bible and events it just alludes to but that may actually have happened, which then gave rise to the legends all the cultures have??

Skye1300 · May 6, 2022

Sorn said:
Or is it that Greek mythology is more & more based on the bible and events it just alludes to but that may actually have happened, which then gave rise to the legends all the cultures have??

Exactly! I believe the creatures that inspired greek mythologies were the Nephilim. Lucifer wanted to be worshipped as a god which is why he got kicked out of heaven, so his offspring also wanted to be worshipped as gods on earth and posed as gods to the people in different cultures. And that's where mythologies came from as well as other religions. And now today, those are the same beings posing as aliens.
That's the reason why I think it's important for Christians to know about the fallen angels and where these beings come from. Because if "aliens" do arrive, they will seem to contradict the Bible and may even claim the Bible is false, and if Christians don't understand what happened in Genesis and where these creatures came from, they may be tricked into believing their lies and lured away from Christianity.

3 Resurrections · May 7, 2022

Skye1300 said:
Yes, demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim who died in the flood of Noah. Their souls wander the earth now causing problems for humans.

I agree with you in the distinction you are making between the fallen angels and the disembodied spirits of the children they bore via human women. But those disembodied spirits - the "unclean spirits" - have "passed out of the land", as Zechariah 13:2 prophesied for the time following the siege against Judah and Jerusalem. After this AD 70 siege of Zechariah 12-14, the "unclean spirits" of the Nephilim passed out of existence. They have not been a threat to mankind since then.

ChetSinger said:
I agree. There's also a little-known reference to the "sons of God" in Deuteronomy 32:8. It's little-known because only the Septuagint and some of the more modern Bibles include it:

When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.

I also agree with this translation that reveals the origin of the "divine council" of angels over the affairs of mankind since the days of Peleg when the earth was divided. Daniel referred to this supervisory group of the "sons of God" as "the Watchers"(Daniel 4:13,17,23). God put the nations in subjugation to this kind of angelic oversight over the nations to help with fulfilling His plans for the rise and fall of empires, and the eventual prophesied coming of Jesus as the Messiah.

But there was a point when mankind's subjection to this angelic oversight of the "sons of God" / "Watchers" / divine council was disbanded. Hebrews 2:5 says that "...unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the habitable world which is to come, of which we speak". It was at the time when those unclean spirits "passed out of the land" in AD 70 when there was no longer any need for the divine council to do spiritual battle with the members of the Satanic realm, because God got rid of that enemy at that time.

sawdust · May 7, 2022

MMXX said:
I think the way demons are described, it's unlikely fallen angels would have any kind of physical form. How else could they possess and be cast out and transfer from a person into a herd of swine?

They weren't fallen when they came into women. It was this sin that caused them to become fallen.

Sorn · May 7, 2022

sawdust said:
They weren't fallen when they came into women. It was this sin that caused them to become fallen.

Probably they sinned when they decided to do it. The question is the term 'fallen angel' just a label or is it more descriptive of that, denoting some change in the angels characteristics or abilities that is simply not them thinking or doing a bad deed.
Its clear that God took some time before He punished them. So, apart from locking them up, did God change them in some way so that they were then fallen angels whereas before they had just been angles that sinned.

sawdust · May 8, 2022

Sorn said:
Probably they sinned when they decided to do it. The question is the term 'fallen angel' just a label or is it more descriptive of that, denoting some change in the angels characteristics or abilities that is simply not them thinking or doing a bad deed.
Its clear that God took some time before He punished them. So, apart from locking them up, did God change them in some way so that they were then fallen angels whereas before they had just been angles that sinned.

I think it safe to say that "fallen" denotes a limitation that was not there while in a state of grace. For these particular angels being imprisoned is the obvious limitation but whether there are further limitations, I'm not sure we can know.

Their sin of procreation with human women was brought on by their evil desire. Sin is born of evil desire (Jm.1:14-15).

I have heard it taught that Jude 1:6 is a reference to angels, not simply leaving heaven and coming to Earth, but an abandonment of their actual state of being. We know angels can appear as humans and eat and presumably sleep as Gen.19 recounts they ate and went to bed. This in itself is obviously not a sin, however we really have no direct understanding of what commands these angels were executing (or failing to execute).

I don't believe God changed them in some way to make them fallen, any more than I believe He changed Adam to make him fallen. I believe whatever changes ensued from their sin was the direct consequences of said sin.

Skye1300 · May 8, 2022

sawdust said:
They weren't fallen when they came into women. It was this sin that caused them to become fallen.

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that.

Skye1300 · May 8, 2022

Sorn said:
Probably they sinned when they decided to do it. The question is the term 'fallen angel' just a label or is it more descriptive of that, denoting some change in the angels characteristics or abilities that is simply not them thinking or doing a bad deed.
Its clear that God took some time before He punished them. So, apart from locking them up, did God change them in some way so that they were then fallen angels whereas before they had just been angles that sinned.

Interesting. I was always thinking fallen meant they fell from heaven to earth in the literal sense when they were kicked out of heaven. I never thought of it the way you're thinking.

sawdust · May 8, 2022

Skye1300 said:
Interesting. I was always thinking fallen meant they fell from heaven to earth in the literal sense when they were kicked out of heaven. I never thought of it the way you're thinking.

It does call them "Sons of God". Fallen angels are never referred to as sons so they had to be in a state of sinlessness when they desired the women. It was acting on this evil desire that led to their sin which in turn made them fall. It was the same type of thing with Adam. It was his evil desire for the fruit that led to his sin of eating that in turn, made him fall. In other words, the fall comes after the sin.

sawdust · May 8, 2022

Skye1300 said:
Interesting. I was always thinking fallen meant they fell from heaven to earth in the literal sense when they were kicked out of heaven. I never thought of it the way you're thinking.

I've always thought of "fallen" as simply meaning being something less than the original.

Sorn · May 8, 2022

sawdust said:
It does call them "Sons of God". Fallen angels are never referred to as sons so they had to be in a state of sinlessness when they desired the women. It was acting on this evil desire that led to their sin which in turn made them fall. It was the same type of thing with Adam. It was his evil desire for the fruit that led to his sin of eating that in turn, made him fall. In other words, the fall comes after the sin.

Technically, it was his believing the lie the devil told & then disobeying God by taking the fruit, the fruit was just a means to an end.

sawdust · May 8, 2022

Sorn said:
Technically, it was his believing the lie the devil told & then disobeying God by taking the fruit, the fruit was just a means to an end.

True, but why believe the lie? Because the promise (so called) of wisdom was more desirable than the desire to deny oneself and live by the truth.

3 Resurrections · May 8, 2022

sawdust said:
I don't believe God changed them in some way to make them fallen, any more than I believe He changed Adam to make him fallen. I believe whatever changes ensued from their sin was the direct consequences of said sin.

This was true. We know that in the marriage relationship, the two become one. When the angels "left their first estate" and chose human wives and married them, they became one with those fallen women, and then consequently shared their fallen status before God.

Paul wrote about different kinds of flesh: of beasts, birds, of fish, of the glory of terrestrial bodies (of mankind), and the glory of celestial bodies (of angels) in 1 Corinthians 15:40. These types of different-fleshed species were designed not to intermingle with each other. But some of the angels, (in the same manner as the men of Sodom who desired to have relations with the angelic messengers), had "gone after OTHER flesh" (Jude 1:7) which was not of their own species. When the celestial bodies of the formerly-righteous angels were joined in marriage and became one with the terrestrial bodies of their fallen human wives, they became corrupted by that association with fallen mankind. The hybrid children generated by these fallen angels also became "unclean" by association with Adam's fallen race, and when those hybrid children grew up and later died, the spirit of that offspring was called an "unclean spirit".

In Christ's days of His earthly ministry, examples of these "unclean spirits" possessing individuals were as prevalent as the common cold in the cities of Israel. But Zechariah 13:2 predicted the time when these unclean spirits would "pass out of the land", and would exist no more.

Fallen Angel's Seed

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