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And some say that demons are actually the spirits of the Nephilim and fallen angels are in another class. Like you say speculation
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Okay so if the sons of God were humans just like the daughters of men, then why is there a distinction here? If the sons of God are human, then why wouldn't this passage read: "the sons of God saw the daughters of God that they were fair..."
I think the distinction is here for a reason, mainly to indicate that it was fallen Angel's, not descendants of humans @Maria Billingsley
Fallen angels are no longer angels, they are demons.So your premise is demons can not materialize. Perhaps. But what what is being argued here is can angels materialize, ie before they fell, and the answer is yes.
So an angel can decide to materialize, marry, have kids etc, but once stopped, then they could perhaps no longer materialize.
Thats just semantics!. They are angels and can materialize as a person until God takes action against them. Its pretty obvious that action took sometime in coming. Once action was taken and they had their powers / rights etc removed, changed etc, then they became demons.Fallen angels are no longer angels, they are demons.
I'll just circle back to " sons of God", angels are not sons of God , faithful men and women are. There was a lineage from Seth, sons of God, and a lineage from Cain, not sons of God. They were unequally yoked thus produced an unrighteous corrupted lineage throughout the earth. Then God destroyed all of them except Noah and his family. This is my interpretation. I respect yours.Thats just semantics!. They are angels and can materialize as a person until God takes action against them. Its pretty obvious that action took sometime in coming. Once action was taken and they had their powers / rights etc removed, changed etc, then they became demons.
According to early Christian fathers, the "sons of God" are angels and demons are the spirits of their dead human sons, the nephilim.Fallen angels are no longer angels, they are demons.
I understand, I do not hold to this interpretation. I believe sons of God are the faithful who have been corrupted by the unfaithful. The lineage of Seth vs the lineage of Cain.According to early Christian fathers, the "sons of God" are angels and demons are the spirits of their dead human sons, the nephilim.
That is, when angels leave heaven they can assume the physical form of men (as they did when they rescued Lot from Sodom). But demons, being the spirits of dead men, no longer have their bodies, which is why they want to hijack one of ours if they can.
I'll collect some references from the church fathers and post them here.
Thanks for sharing.Fyi, here are some quotes from early church fathers, writing that demons are not fallen angels but instead are the spirits of dead nephilim, who were themselves the children of angels and women in Genesis 6. These are all pre-Augustinian fathers. Afaik, human-oriented interpretations of Genesis came later.
My personal opinion is that these church fathers had it right. It offers a ready explanation for those weird passages in Jude and 2 Peter. Here they are.
CHURCH FATHERS: The Second Apology (St. Justin Martyr)
Chapter 5. How the angels transgressed
...God, when He had made the whole world, and subjected things earthly to man, and arranged the heavenly elements for the increase of fruits and rotation of the seasons, and appointed this divine law; for these things also He evidently made for man; committed the care of men and of all things under heaven to angels whom He appointed over them. But the angels transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begot children who are those that are called demons; and besides, they afterwards subdued the human race to themselves...
CHURCH FATHERS: A Plea for the Christians (Athenagoras)
Chapter 24. Concerning the Angels and Giants
...Just as with men, who have freedom of choice as to both virtue and vice (for you would not either honour the good or punish the bad, unless vice and virtue were in their own power; and some are diligent in the matters entrusted to them by you, and others faithless), so is it among the angels. Some, free agents, you will observe, such as they were created by God, continued in those things for which God had made and over which He had ordained them; but some outraged both the constitution of their nature and the government entrusted to them: namely, this ruler of matter and its various forms, and others of those who were placed about this first firmament (you know that we say nothing without witnesses, but state the things which have been declared by the prophets); these fell into impure love of virgins, and were subjugated by the flesh, and he became negligent and wicked in the management of the things entrusted to him. Of these lovers of virgins, therefore, were begotten those who are called giants...
Chapter 25. The Poets and Philosophers Have Denied a Divine Providence
These angels, then, who have fallen from heaven, and haunt the air and the earth, and are no longer able to rise to heavenly things, and the souls of the giants, which are the demons who wander about the world, perform actions similar, the one (that is, the demons) to the natures they have received, the other (that is, the angels) to the appetites they have indulged...
CHURCH FATHERS: Divine Institutes, Book II (Lactantius)
Chapter 15. Of the Corruption of Angels, and the Two Kinds of Demons
When, therefore, the number of men had begun to increase, God in His forethought, lest the devil, to whom from the beginning He had given power over the earth, should by his subtlety either corrupt or destroy men, as he had done at first, sent angels for the protection and improvement of the human race; and inasmuch as He had given these a free will, He enjoined them above all things not to defile themselves with contamination from the earth, and thus lose the dignity of their heavenly nature. He plainly prohibited them from doing that which He knew that they would do, that they might entertain no hope of pardon. Therefore, while they abode among men, that most deceitful ruler of the earth, by his very association, gradually enticed them to vices, and polluted them by intercourse with women. Then, not being admitted into heaven on account of the sins into which they had plunged themselves, they fell to the earth. Thus from angels the devil makes them to become his satellites and attendants. But they who were born from these, because they were neither angels nor men, but bearing a kind of mixed nature, were not admitted into hell, as their fathers were not into heaven. Thus there came to be two kinds of demons; one of heaven, the other of the earth. The latter are the wicked spirits, the authors of all the evils which are done, and the same devil is their prince...
CHURCH FATHERS: On Christian Discipline (Commodianus)
III. The Worship of Demons
When Almighty God, to beautify the nature of the world, willed that that earth should be visited by angels, when they were sent down they despised His laws. Such was the beauty of women, that it turned them aside; so that, being contaminated, they could not return to heaven. Rebels from God, they uttered words against Him. Then the Highest uttered His judgment against them; and from their seed giants are said to have been born. By them arts were made known in the earth, and they taught the dyeing of wool, and everything which is done; and to them, when they died, men erected images. But the Almighty, because they were of an evil seed, did not approve that, when dead, they should be brought back from death. Whence wandering they now subvert many bodies, and it is such as these especially that you this day worship and pray to as gods.
That is addressing demons. Genesis 6 addresses angels. You are assuming they are the same thing. It could be that lusting for the daughters of men and taking them as wives is what caused these angels to fall. Is this temptation what Paul was referring to?Likewise. We are at a stalemate. I found this commentary helpful.
Thanks for engaging!
Can Demons Materialize in Human or Animal Form?
This actually has to do with " sons of God". I know fallen angels are followers of Satan so one can assume they have chosen the demonic realm.That is addressing demons. Genesis 6 addresses angels. You are assuming they are the same thing. It could be that lusting for the daughters of men and taking them as wives is what caused these angels to fall. Is this temptation what Paul was referring to?
1Co 11:10
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
The sons of God in Genesis and in Job are angelsThis actually has to do with " sons of God". I know fallen angels are followers of Satan so one can assume they have chosen the demonic realm.
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
I agree. There's also a little-known reference to the "sons of God" in Deuteronomy 32:8. It's little-known because only the Septuagint and some of the more modern Bibles include it:The sons of God in Genesis and in Job are angels
As far as 1 Corinthians 11:10, yet another obscure verse , can simply mean Paul refers to angels as observers of our public worship services. Since they are watching, it is important for women to be appropriate in covering their glory and not dishonoring their husbands.That is addressing demons. Genesis 6 addresses angels. You are assuming they are the same thing. It could be that lusting for the daughters of men and taking them as wives is what caused these angels to fall. Is this temptation what Paul was referring to?
1Co 11:10
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
Yes that is one view of three. I hold a different view.The sons of God in Genesis and in Job are angels
Yes that is one view of three. I hold a different view.
Thanks for sharing!
you realize those images are fakes, right?There are so many weird skulls that have been dug up that says those creatures could not have been just humans.
View attachment 315673 View attachment 315674
Top skull looks pretty normal, bottom one looks like a movie prop.There are so many weird skulls that have been dug up that says those creatures could not have been just humans.
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