faith question:

[iamafish]

The only soveriegn I can allow to rule me is reason: The first law of reason is this: what exists, exists; what is, is. From this irreducible, bedrock principle, all knowledge is built. This is the foundation from which life is embraced, Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discover them. Reason is our only way of grasping reality--it's our basic tool of survival. Misery, Iniquity, and utter destruction lurk in the shadows ouside reason's full light, where half-truths snare the faithful disciples, the deeply feeling believers, the selfless followers. Faith and feelings are the warm marrow of evil. Unlike reason, faith and feelings provide no boundary to limit any delusions, any whim. They are a virulent poison, giving the numbing illusion of moral sanction to every depravity ever hatched. Reason is the very substance of truth itself. Faith and feelings are the darkness to reason's light. (wizards 6th rule, faith of the falled, Terry Goodkind)

any respones...

 

[ebia]

Reason is excellent, but it's not everything. Even the assumption that it is everything is a step outside; kind of self-defeating really.

 

[iamafish]

how is it, reason is everything because everything can be explained by reason

 

[ebia]

That's just an assumption - you could never prove it from reason. In fact, it's not even a correct assumption as can be shown in mathematics, which is the only pure form of reason.

 

[iamafish]

all right, perhapse it is a bit of an overstatement to say everything can be explained by reason, but the quote is still true in essence

 

[ebia]

As I've shown, the quote itself isn't based on reason; it's therefore self-contradictory.

 

[Rafael]

Reason is based upon knowledge and then wisdom that comes from the Creator. We have so little of both, so how then can we make a call with reason when we are so ignorant of even the basic elemental powers of the dimensions of this universe? Even all things are made of the unseen, and so we are only begining to discover God's great and awesome design that goes beyond our sight.
Man is so adept at arrogant speeches based on ignorance and pride. The fallen nature of man thinks it needs no help to find the way back from sin and death...Born dead, man only knows death until the light of God's Spirit shines upon him with the with grace and true knowledge that leads to wisdom.

Pr 2:6 For the LORD grants wisdom! From his mouth come knowledge and understanding.

 

[Johnnz]

How do you justify reason without using reason? Otherwise, the arguement is circular, or at least begs the question.

Yours is a religious position. It is based on the faith that when all the facts are in that will prove that nothing exists outside of matter. Until then, you have accepted the total adequacy of reason by faith.

If reason is an absolute how do you explain the "laws of nature"? How does an irrational process result in rational consequences that require rational explanation?

What if something does exist that cannot be accessed directly by reason? Then, reason would be inadequate to explain that reality, as it would be inaccessible to it.

Your faith/reason dichotomy is false. You live by faith too.

John
NZ

 

[calidog]

The only soveriegn I can allow to rule me is reason: The first law of reason is this: what exists, exists; what is, is. From this irreducible, bedrock principle, all knowledge is built. This is the foundation from which life is embraced, Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discover them. Reason is our only way of grasping reality--it's our basic tool of survival. Misery, Iniquity, and utter destruction lurk in the shadows ouside reason's full light, where half-truths snare the faithful disciples, the deeply feeling believers, the selfless followers. Faith and feelings are the warm marrow of evil. Unlike reason, faith and feelings provide no boundary to limit any delusions, any whim. They are a virulent poison, giving the numbing illusion of moral sanction to every depravity ever hatched. Reason is the very substance of truth itself. Faith and feelings are the darkness to reason's light. (wizards 6th rule, faith of the falled, Terry Goodkind)

any respones...

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Here in Isaiah, the Lord says He desires to reason with us.