• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Faith is...

JohnD70X7

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
606
242
65
Southwest
✟66,936.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
IMHE (in my humble experience), I have found that faith is not necessarily blind faith (devoid of proof, evidence, knowing facts)... but rather belief in God which grows stronger as evidence and proof accumulate growing our knowledge and understanding of God... and affirming our ongoing trust in him on the matters we may never have all knowledge / proof of.

Saving faith (IMHE) is total trust in God who once we believe in his Son makes up every shortcoming in us and our walk with him by the inputted righteousness of his Son into our account. Saving faith in Jesus is a complete lack of faith in my self or my abilities. Anything less is not saving faith.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Neogaia777
M
MyGodisawesome
According to Hebrews 11:1-6 “faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”. In a way it is not blind because there’s evidence of God’s existence everywhere and anywhere we go Romans 1:20. But it takes faith to believe in the Creator instead of the creation itself and then there’s saving faith like you mentioned.
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,630
4,676
Hudson
✟344,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
IMHE (in my humble experience), I have found that faith is not necessarily blind faith (devoid of proof, evidence, knowing facts)... but rather belief in God which grows stronger as evidence and proof accumulate growing our knowledge and understanding of God... and affirming our ongoing trust in him on the matters we may never have all knowledge / proof of.
Evidence is that which indicates to someone that something is true and we can't account for how someone's belief can be caused without something indicating to them that it is true, so to claim that a someone can form a belief based on blind faith without evidence is to claim that they have a belief that began to exist that is uncaused, which is impossible, therefore blind faith does not exist. If there evidence that indicated to someone that a belief is true, then it is not blind faith, but if there is but if there was nothing that indicated to someone that a belief is true, then they would have never formed the belief that it is true. For example, we are free to look at what indicated to someone that alien conspiracy theories are true and evaluate whether or not we agree that those are good reasons that are sufficient to form our own belief, but for us to deny that there is anything that indicated to them that alien conspiracy theories are true is to claim that they have beliefs that began to exist that are uncaused, which is impossible.

Saving faith (IMHE) is total trust in God who once we believe in his Son makes up every shortcoming in us and our walk with him by the inputted righteousness of his Son into our account. Saving faith in Jesus is a complete lack of faith in my self or my abilities. Anything less is not saving faith.
There are a number of indications that Eve's desire influenced her perception (Genesis 3:6). Our desire clouds our judgement so that we can't be sure if something is truly good or if we just think that it is good because we desire it, so this is where we have a choice of whether we are going to lean on our own perception of good and evil or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to make our paths straight through following what He has instructed (Proverbs 3:1-6), which is essentially undoing the damage caused by eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and instead choosing to eat from the Tree of Life. In other words, we have a choice between doing what is right in our own eyes or putting our faith in the nature of God to be the straight ruler for how we live our lives, and this is what it means to have saving faith in the Son because he is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). God is trustworthy, therefore what He has instructed is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to have faith in God is by relying on what He has instructed, while relying on ourselves does not involve relying on what anyone else has instructed, so it would be contradictory for someone to think that we can rely on ourselves by relying on what God has instructed.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,541
29,057
Pacific Northwest
✟813,032.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Trust. Faith is trust.

Faith is not a property of the intellect, though the intellect gives expressions of faith. Faith is not reason, but reason can and should serve--minister--to faith.

Faith is not a human effort, a human act, it is not human will, it does not come from us at all, but comes from God. God gives faith, God creates faith, God strengthens faith.

"It is by grace that you have been saved, through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" - Ephesians 2:8

This statement "this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" applies to the entire clause "it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith". Salvation, its cause (grace) and the means through which it is received (faith), is the gift of God. God does it, not us. This is reemphasized in the following verse:

"Not by works, so that none may boast." (Ephesians 2:9). The Greek word here translated as "works" is a simple Greek word that simply means "a thing that is done"; we don't do anything in this gift and gracious work of God, we are instead entirely passive recipients of God's goodness.

We may, at this point ask ourselves how or where or in what ways does God give, create, and strengthen faith; the answer to this question is answered succinctly by St. Paul in Romans chapter 10. For he speaks of the importance of preaching the word, that without the Gospel going forth no one can call upon Christ, know of Christ, trust in Christ, etc. Therefore the Apostle concludes in verse 17, "Therefore, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." It is the word of God--the Gospel itself--which is what God uses to convert us, to give us faith. So wherever, however, and whenever this word is there God is at work to give, create, and strengthen faith.

Because of this the Christian Church has always recognized that Christ has instituted and given to His Church, for the task of making disciples and bringing the efficacious message of God's salvation to the world, Word and Sacrament. Not that these are two different things, but are a singular Means of Grace. So Christ says in Matthew 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and instructing them in all which I have taught." and in Luke 24:46-47, "And He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem." and in Mark 16:16, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe is condemned."

Here we see Christ has commanded His Church to 1) Preach the Gospel and 2) Baptize. It is not, however, that these are fundamentally two different things which are some kind of systematic program. Rather, this is two expressions of God's Means, of the word coming and creating faith. We see, for example, that God's word is right there with the water of baptism when Paul says in Ephesians 5:26, in instructing husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, that Christ laid down His life and cleansed her (the Church) by "the washing of water with the word". Baptism is not a religious ceremony that is just about getting wet (1 Peter 3:21) as though by getting wet we earn something from God, but rather God uses baptism by connecting His word to the water, declaring His own promises. What are His promises connected with baptism? We can see for ourselves in Scripture such as Acts 2:38, Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:11-13, Galatians 3:27, and 1 Peter 3:21.

In the same way we see God uses the Lord's Supper, which Christ instituted at His Last Supper, to be a precious means of grace, God uniting together in the Supper the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ in, with, and under the symbols of bread and wine, for Christ Himself told us explicitly that His flesh is true food and His blood is true drink, that whoever eats His flesh and drinks His blood has life in and with Him (John 6:54-56), saying at His Last Supper also, "This is My body" and "This is My blood of the New Covenant" (Matthew 26:26-28), and St. Paul writing in 1 Corinthians 10:16 that the bread and wine of the Supper we eat and drink is communion, partaking of, the body and blood of Christ.

The gift and work of faith which God gives and does is not through our efforts, our doing things; it isn't about our reason or active intellect. It is the gracious and free work of God, God's gift. That we should be freely justified by His grace, through faith. As Paul writes in Titus 3:5, it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but rather His mercy, having washed us in the waters of regeneration and the renewing us by the Holy Spirit.

This is why the Christian Church has never been a holy club for academics (though she has given birth to many academics of faith), but a hospital for sinners whose members include the small, the weak, the infirm, the infant, the widow, the orphan, the slave, the lowly, as well as the strong, the adult, the healthy, the married, the parented, the free.

All have sinned, Paul says, and have fallen short. All are sinners and in need of God's wonderful kindness, and He Himself has acted to save us, for He is mighty to save (Zephaniah 3:17), He is unwilling to leave us and abandon us to our own destruction, but to save us (2 Peter 3:9).

He is a stubborn and relentless Savior. Unwilling that we should be destroyed by our own sin, He has thrown Himself in front of catastrophe speeding headlong toward us, and bore it all and entirely. And He is here, among us, constantly, continually, unceasingly loving us and being good to us: His Gospel to be the sweetness of His salvation: He forgives us, loves us, and rushes toward us like the good father in the story of the prodigal son.

We always want to try and insert ourselves into the story of salvation, because the flesh is not only weak, but perverse--always seeking glory, always wanting to boast. But there's nothing about ourselves to boast about, we didn't do anything. Not even our faith is something we can boast about, because faith--simple faith--is still from God and not of ourselves.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,630
4,676
Hudson
✟344,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Trust. Faith is trust.

Faith is not a property of the intellect, though the intellect gives expressions of faith. Faith is not reason, but reason can and should serve--minister--to faith.

Faith is not a human effort, a human act, it is not human will, it does not come from us at all, but comes from God. God gives faith, God creates faith, God strengthens faith.

"It is by grace that you have been saved, through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" - Ephesians 2:8

This statement "this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" applies to the entire clause "it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith". Salvation, its cause (grace) and the means through which it is received (faith), is the gift of God. God does it, not us. This is reemphasized in the following verse:

"Not by works, so that none may boast." (Ephesians 2:9). The Greek word here translated as "works" is a simple Greek word that simply means "a thing that is done"; we don't do anything in this gift and gracious work of God, we are instead entirely passive recipients of God's goodness.
Saying that salvation by grace through faith is a gift of God is not the same as saying that faith is a gift of God. Good works can be required for many reasons other than in order to result in our salvation or in order to boast, so saying that our salvation is not earned as the result of our good works lest anyone should boast is not denying that our salvation necessarily requires choosing to do good works for other reasons, especially when Ephesians 2:10 describes our salvation as being made new creations in Christ to do good works by grace through faith. According to John 17:3, God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus, so something being a gift of God does not mean that it does not necessarily require us to choose to do good works. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so our salvation is not the result of having done those works and doing those works is not the result of having been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of salvation.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
24,637
9,262
up there
✟380,039.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of salvation.
When one comes to understand how Eve, then Adam putting their will ahead of the will of God was a smack in His face and a step backwards for mankind, then we come to understand that the self interest shown by A&E and passed to all descendants has been the cause of all evils ever since. We couldn't even get the knowledge of good and evil right because we used it for self interest. God stated in the Garden, on Sinai, with Jesus, all through the Bible to put care for others in times of need before self interest as a way of life. Man continually builds religion around all but that simple fact for fear the world we have made in our own image may collapse.
 
Upvote 0

Blade

Veteran
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2002
8,175
4,001
USA
✟654,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
IMHE (in my humble experience), I have found that faith is not necessarily blind faith (devoid of proof, evidence, knowing facts)... but rather belief in God which grows stronger as evidence and proof accumulate growing our knowledge and understanding of God... and affirming our ongoing trust in him on the matters we may never have all knowledge / proof of.

Saving faith (IMHE) is total trust in God who once we believe in his Son makes up every shortcoming in us and our walk with him by the inputted righteousness of his Son into our account. Saving faith in Jesus is a complete lack of faith in my self or my abilities. Anything less is not saving faith.
Hey John. Blind faith which I have said for many years...well in truth I have been using them wrongly. I believe it was just faith. The blind part.. I will try not good with words. Right now I can see in front of me yet that is not real. The real is what I can not see but will happen. Blind I called living in Washington wanting to go to School in Oklahoma. Knowing had no way to get there maybe buss. No job nothing. Got this thought to go say good by to old friend that just happen to know two people going to the same state (same way). As we were driving in to Oklahoma she said she knew someone at Oral Roberts UNIV I might be able to stay with but didn't know where the the school was.

As we were talking about that a car behind us he keeps pointing up.. haha I can still see him. We pull over to this info stand and he right behind gets out comes over and says "didn't you see me pointing up? "Yesssss?" He said "the lord told me you don't know how to get to Oral Roberts UNIV and I am to show you the way". That was what 40y ago and yet like yesterday happened to me and STILL just blows me away. Father forgive not to boast but its always been that way. I called it blind faith yet I think just walking by faith. I would say blind because I never once gave it another thought. Didn't need any more proof or evidence. Hard for me to put into words. You can't see where your going thats the blind yet not blind for what you can't see is based on the physical. Like "you have no job no place to stay" yes that's what it looks like huh. Never give a thought to doubt worry fear.. just go. There was someone also staying with us who they haha warned me will convict you. Well he was praying for someone that after words blessed him with some money that paid for the 1st year. He came and 1st thing he said was "why are you listening to music you should be praying. It was always always about prayer with him.

He was spot on.. had the faith and the works. Anyway.. faith is not something on any forum I am on that ever gets talked about nor prayer. The two keys if you ask me. The OT comes to mind.. "delight your self in the lord and He will give you the desires of your heart?. I always left out the next part. "commit your way to Him and trust in (faith) Him and He will do it". That's what I called blind.. and I am wrong. Its just doing what His word says we are to do. Live by faith and walk by faith. NT.. same as OT "what ever you desire when you pray believe you receive it you shall have it". I think God is trying to tell us something. But those that believe like this tend to get mad fun of.

I will oh.. pearls... I have been so blessed seen so many wonders.. always came from by faith.. hearing some faith preacher. A bible study I went to at age 15.. She had so much power of GOD. You had a need it was right to the word she prayed it and it always happened. Granted she was a grand mother and prayed 4 hours a day. I asked her about a known faith preacher this is as negative as she ever go about anyone "I listen to him I just don't agree with everything he teaches". We tend to call FALSE because of some doctrine we don't agree with ...haha as if our "doctrine" in everything we believe is the real truth.

So I listened.. yet I went and I by Christ by the sweet sweet holy Spirit I found what GOD said and I then stand on what HE said. Not by what I see hear of feel but what GOD said. What I do think watch hear ALL come into play when walking by faith. How I talk about others that alone will effect what happens. One man of God was talking to God about a preacher and why God has not judged him fire what ever. We all see it yet this is what God told him "oooh but do you know all the GOOD he does for me". We forget no one is perfect we all fall we all miss it. But those that get up dust off repent keep going. God for some reason does not use the people I think He should use haha. So be it the late Billy Graham or David Wilkerson, Oral Roberts, John MacArthur, Kenneth Hagin, Smith Wigglesworth or any of the great men and women of old...I can see my Jesus in them. I found they like me get can get it wrong miss it.. odd seems they are also human. Like the bible study "if we say anything that is not in this bible do not believe us". So I look for that NOT what I personally believe.

See I have the faith and works.. aka fruits. If it was of GOD it would never work.
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
13,748
5,816
60
Mississippi
✟321,290.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
=​

Faith is persuasion in something or someone. In the case of God it is being persuaded or coming to believe that God's promise given in The Bible is true. In relation to eternal life salvation, the promise of God is anyone who believes in Jesus receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Another example other than connected to eternal life. Was for Sarah it was believing that she was going to have a child in her old age.

 
Upvote 0

Neogaia777

Old Soul
Site Supporter
Oct 10, 2011
24,717
5,558
46
Oregon
✟1,102,886.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
IMHE (in my humble experience), I have found that faith is not necessarily blind faith (devoid of proof, evidence, knowing facts)... but rather belief in God which grows stronger as evidence and proof accumulate growing our knowledge and understanding of God... and affirming our ongoing trust in him on the matters we may never have all knowledge / proof of.

Saving faith (IMHE) is total trust in God who once we believe in his Son makes up every shortcoming in us and our walk with him by the inputted righteousness of his Son into our account. Saving faith in Jesus is a complete lack of faith in my self or my abilities. Anything less is not saving faith.
IMHO/E, you pretty much have it right, and are on the right track.

Now keep going with it, etc.

God Bless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JohnD70X7
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,541
29,057
Pacific Northwest
✟813,032.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Saying that salvation by grace through faith is a gift of God is not the same as saying that faith is a gift of God.

If it's not, then faith is a human work.

The universal teaching of the Christian Church has always been that faith is itself a gift. Faith is not something that arises within me by my own power, but comes from God.

Good works can be required for many reasons other than in order to result in our salvation or in order to boast, so saying that our salvation is not earned as the result of our good works lest anyone should boast is not denying that our salvation necessarily requires choosing to do good works for other reasons, especially when Ephesians 2:10 describes our salvation as being made new creations in Christ to do good works by grace through faith. According to John 17:3, God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus, so something being a gift of God does not mean that it does not necessarily require us to choose to do good works. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so our salvation is not the result of having done those works and doing those works is not the result of having been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of salvation.

Of course good works are required. Just not to earn us a position in relation to God. Our position in relation to God is purely by the Gospel: What God has done for us already, and the only righteousness we have before God is the righteousness God Himself gives us.

Good works have nothing to do with righteousness before God, but rather righteousness before and in relation with our neighbor, with the world at large. That's where Ephesians 2:10 exists.

There are two kinds of righteousness, the passive righteousness of faith which is our righteousness before God, received as pure gift. And there is the active righteousness of good works which is not before God, but before the world.

God gives us righteousness through faith, that is our justification. It is a declared and imputed righteousness. And it is entirely the gift and work and power of God alone. We don't contribute anything to it. Otherwise it would include our works, and we would be able to boast.

"His last clause runs thus: 'I have kept the faith.' But he who says this is the same who declares in another passage, 'I have obtained mercy that I might be faithful.' He does not say, 'I obtained mercy because I was faithful.' but 'in order that I might be faithful.' thus showing that even faith itself cannot be had without God's mercy, and that it is the gift of God. This he very expressly teaches when he says, 'For by grace are you saved through faith, and not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.' They might possibly say, 'We receive grace because we believed.' as if they would attribute the faith to themselves, and the grace to God. Therefore, the apostle having said, 'You are saved through faith,' added, 'and that not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God.' And again, lest they should say they deserved so great a gift by their works, he immediately added, 'Not of works, lest any man should boast.' Not that he denied good works, or emptied them of their value, when he says that God renders every man according to his works; but because works proceed from faith, and not faith from works. Therefore it is from Him that we have works of righteousness, from whom comes also faith itself which it is written, 'The just shall live by faith.'" - St. Augustine of Hippo, Treatise on Grace and Free Will, ch. 17

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,630
4,676
Hudson
✟344,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
If it's not, then faith is a human work.

The universal teaching of the Christian Church has always been that faith is itself a gift. Faith is not something that arises within me by my own power, but comes from God.
It is not universal. It can be easy to misinterpret Ephesians 2:8 as saying that faith is the gift of God, but actually, as you noted, the gift of God refers to the clause "it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith". Us having faith in someone else does not allow for us to boast in ourselves.

Of course good works are required. Just not to earn us a position in relation to God. Our position in relation to God is purely by the Gospel: What God has done for us already, and the only righteousness we have before God is the righteousness God Himself gives us.

Good works have nothing to do with righteousness before God, but rather righteousness before and in relation with our neighbor, with the world at large. That's where Ephesians 2:10 exists.

There are two kinds of righteousness, the passive righteousness of faith which is our righteousness before God, received as pure gift. And there is the active righteousness of good works which is not before God, but before the world.

God gives us righteousness through faith, that is our justification. It is a declared and imputed righteousness. And it is entirely the gift and work and power of God alone. We don't contribute anything to it. Otherwise it would include our works, and we would be able to boast.

"His last clause runs thus: 'I have kept the faith.' But he who says this is the same who declares in another passage, 'I have obtained mercy that I might be faithful.' He does not say, 'I obtained mercy because I was faithful.' but 'in order that I might be faithful.' thus showing that even faith itself cannot be had without God's mercy, and that it is the gift of God. This he very expressly teaches when he says, 'For by grace are you saved through faith, and not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.' They might possibly say, 'We receive grace because we believed.' as if they would attribute the faith to themselves, and the grace to God. Therefore, the apostle having said, 'You are saved through faith,' added, 'and that not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God.' And again, lest they should say they deserved so great a gift by their works, he immediately added, 'Not of works, lest any man should boast.' Not that he denied good works, or emptied them of their value, when he says that God renders every man according to his works; but because works proceed from faith, and not faith from works. Therefore it is from Him that we have works of righteousness, from whom comes also faith itself which it is written, 'The just shall live by faith.'" - St. Augustine of Hippo, Treatise on Grace and Free Will, ch. 17

-CryptoLutheran
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so what God has done for us is given us the gift of His law and what we need to do is repent through faith. To describe someone as having a character trait is to describe them as being someone who chooses to take actions that are express that trait, so to say that God is righteous is to say that He chooses to take actions that express righteousness, and it would be inaccurate to describe God as righteous if He choses not to do that, so the gift of becoming imputed with His righteousness through faith is the gift of becoming someone who chooses to do what is righteous in obedience to the gift of His law through faith.

The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour, where the gift requires them to do the work of driving it, but where doing that work does nothing to earn the opportunity to drive it, and gives them nothing to boast about. So the content of God's gift of righteousness is to experience His righteousness in obedience to the gift of His law. Likewise, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3), and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience through acting in accordance with aspect of His nature, such as righteousness. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to experience knowing God and Jesus, which is eternal life and righteousness for everyone who has faith (Romans 10:2-4).
 
Upvote 0