Faith in Faith or Faith in Christ?

[Dave L]

I think many do not receive healing because their faith is in their faith and not in Christ the healer. All who came to Jesus for healing had faith in him. The thought never occurred to them that faith was a condition they must meet and keep before Christ would heal them. They believed Jesus would heal them so they came to him.

And it is no different today, we ask for healing and if God grants faith in the matter, he granted the healing, we know healing is on the way. But it is obvious God would not grant faith and heal the many gluttonous and drunken Corinthians who became sick and died when they failed to discern Christ’s body in their communion service. The healing in this case was in repentance. And so it is with many other sins we must first repent of.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that moves us in the direction God would have us to go. If you have faith in God and tell a mountain to move, and doubt not, it will happen. Because faith tells you God is in on it, doing the moving. But if you have faith in your faith, as a condition you must meet, your faith is in yourself and it will not move a grain of sand, let alone a mountain.

Years ago many deaths happened in a WOF Church I attended. And looking back I can see what went wrong. I share some of my story in the Testimonies section in a brief article I call "Escape From a Death Cult".

Do I believe in divine healing? Yes, I've enjoyed divine health since the 1980s.

 

[keyman]

Yes, many Christians are relying on there faith. And they become focused on themselves and what is wrong with them.
They should be focusing on Jesus Christ, the Author and Finisher of our faith.

 

[now faith]

I think many do not receive healing because their faith is in their faith and not in Christ the healer. All who came to Jesus for healing had faith in him. The thought never occurred to them that faith was a condition they must meet and keep before Christ would heal them. They believed Jesus would heal them so they came to him.

And it is no different today, we ask for healing and if God grants faith in the matter, he granted the healing, we know healing is on the way. But it is obvious God would not grant faith and heal the many gluttonous and drunken Corinthians who became sick and died when they failed to discern Christ’s body in their communion service. The healing in this case was in repentance. And so it is with many other sins we must first repent of.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that moves us in the direction God would have us to go. If you have faith in God and tell a mountain to move, and doubt not, it will happen. Because faith tells you God is in on it, doing the moving. But if you have faith in your faith, as a condition you must meet, your faith is in yourself and it will not move a grain of sand, let alone a mountain.

Years ago many deaths happened in a WOF Church I attended. And looking back I can see what went wrong. I share some of my story in the Testimonies section in a brief article I call "Escape From a Death Cult".

Do I believe in divine healing? Yes, I've enjoyed divine health since the 1980s.

You know we do not play with rattlesnakes and guzzle draino.
It may help if you look into our statement of Faith before you presume your experience applies to all Word of Faith.
So if you are warning people about our Faith, I would say you are in violation of our rules.
Now if you will name this death church and tell the congreation here what happened, we will do our best to help.

 

[Richard T]

I always liked the book by Fred Price, Faith, Foolishness, or Presumption. Faith on one's own faith, I think would be labelled foolishness. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

 

[now faith]

I always liked the book by Fred Price, Faith, Foolishness, or Presumption. Faith on one's own faith, I think would be labelled foolishness. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

It is a liars paradox, to have Faith in your faith.
It takes God out of the equation and seemingly places the ability for all things solely in the individual.

In Mark 11 Christ states Have Faith in God.

 

[now faith]

I think many do not receive healing because their faith is in their faith and not in Christ the healer. All who came to Jesus for healing had faith in him. The thought never occurred to them that faith was a condition they must meet and keep before Christ would heal them. They believed Jesus would heal them so they came to him.

And it is no different today, we ask for healing and if God grants faith in the matter, he granted the healing, we know healing is on the way. But it is obvious God would not grant faith and heal the many gluttonous and drunken Corinthians who became sick and died when they failed to discern Christ’s body in their communion service. The healing in this case was in repentance. And so it is with many other sins we must first repent of.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that moves us in the direction God would have us to go. If you have faith in God and tell a mountain to move, and doubt not, it will happen. Because faith tells you God is in on it, doing the moving. But if you have faith in your faith, as a condition you must meet, your faith is in yourself and it will not move a grain of sand, let alone a mountain.

Years ago many deaths happened in a WOF Church I attended. And looking back I can see what went wrong. I share some of my story in the Testimonies section in a brief article I call "Escape From a Death Cult".

Do I believe in divine healing? Yes, I've enjoyed divine health since the 1980s.

Hello Dave welcome to our forum.
I am sorry about what you experienced in the past.
There are some who believe that being treated for illness by a Doctor is not faith.
I do not know any here or preachers I follow that believe this way.
I do not put condition on how God Heals.
I could not find the testimony section, but would like to read about your experience.
Any help with the location would be appreciated.

God Bless

 

[W2L]

Love is greater than faith.

 

[now faith]

Love is greater than faith.

You cannot love what you do not believe in.

1 John 4: 7. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[W2L]

You cannot love what you do not believe in.

Love is still greater.

 

[Dave L]

Hello Dave welcome to our forum.
I am sorry about what you experienced in the past.
There are some who believe that being treated for illness by a Doctor is not faith.
I do not know any here or preachers I follow that believe this way.
I do not put condition on how God Heals.
I could not find the testimony section, but would like to read about your experience.
Any help with the location would be appreciated.

God Bless

Thanks for the reply. I think we could have some interesting exchanges because I see the WOF as an outworking of faith in the heart that enables us to believe God's provision is on the way. Instead of an act of the will forcing what some call blind faith.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/escape-from-a-death-cult.8071219/

 

[now faith]

Thanks for the reply. I think we could have some interesting exchanges because I see the WOF as an outworking of faith in the heart that enables us to believe God's provision is on the way. Instead of an act of the will forcing what some call blind faith.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/escape-from-a-death-cult.8071219/

Thank you as Well.
I know there are branches who are labeled as Word of Faith, and like many in other denomations have gone away from the core teaching.
I have found Word of Faith is very simple to understand.
We base our Faith on what God's Word has given us to live by.
Our prayer life is based on Schripture, and we believe that we are what God says we are, s nd can do what He says we can do.

It is nice to have new people visit, and are welcome to stay.
God Bless

 

[Dave L]

Love is still greater.

“For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.” (Galatians 5:6)

 

[Dave L]

Having a WOF background I came to a different understanding from where I began. According to Mark 11:24 I used to claim a promise and set my mind on it thinking God would honor that and sooner or later manifest the promise. But now I believe faith is exclusively a fruit of the Holy Spirit. So when I pray according to Mark 11:24, I look within to see if faith is present, not conjured up in my head. And if faith is present, I have confidence that God has granted the answer, and believing, I naturally speak and act as though I will receive it in time if not in eternity.

So instead of building from the outside>in, thinking, speaking, acting with the mind, I build from the inside>out. I also know that faith is the finger of God that moves us into position for receiving. But if faith is not present, I need to rethink my petition to see if it aligns with scripture and maybe ask again. Sometimes repentance provides, or right eating, or other common means.

 

[now faith]

Dave I read your blog, and you are spot on about a cult like Church.

God uses Doctors to heal, or any other way that He chooses .

 

[now faith]

Double click

 

[now faith]

Error

 

[now faith]

Having a WOF background I came to a different understanding from where I began. According to Mark 11:24 I used to claim a promise and set my mind on it thinking God would honor that and sooner or later manifest the promise. But now I believe faith is exclusively a fruit of the Holy Spirit. So when I pray according to Mark 11:24, I look within to see if faith is present, not conjured up in my head. And if faith is present, I have confidence that God has granted the answer, and believing, I naturally speak and act as though I will receive it in time if not in eternity.

So instead of building from the outside>in, thinking, speaking, acting with the mind, I build from the inside>out. I also know that faith is the finger of God that moves us into position for receiving. But if faith is not present, I need to rethink my petition to see if it aligns with scripture and maybe ask again. Sometimes repentance provides, or right eating, or other common means.

Romans 10: 8. But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the
Word of God.

So we are on a pathway to the truth in Christ, He is the Word.
The more time spent in God's Word, with The Holy Spirit revealing the truth, we mature in faith.
People who critize Word of Faith believers,do not like to hear truth they want to pass on their Pastors personal interptation of God's Truth.
By staying in the Word, God starts to bring us to the knowlage of His will,for our obedience and for our protection over the enemy.
Faith in modern day is not as simple as it was early in the first Churches.

People were not taught from generation to generation that God's power Heals, Blesses ,and is life changing to the point where by we can walk in the Spirit, we can speak with God, and we can boldly come to the throne of Grace.
There is no mention that ALL the promises of God are yes and amen.
If we ponder this simple truth, you would think we would be grabbing our Bibles and finding every promise that Christ paid for.

Instead people place condition on God's Love and put a big qualifier called IF IT BE THINE WILL.
Sure there are verses that deal with people who presume the wrong things about God, He is not a Genie and we do not command Him.
Yet as the old hymn Standing on the Promises of God says we will gain more Faith the more time we seek His Will in His Word, therefore the If is deleted because we know.

Here is a passage that touches my heart:

Acts 14: 8. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9. The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10. Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

Verse 9 Paul perceived his Faith.
If only today we could perceive those who have Faith for their afflictions to be healed.
Today the hidden man of the heart has been beaten down, to unbelief.

 

[Dave L]

Romans 10: 8. But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the
Word of God.

So we are on a pathway to the truth in Christ, He is the Word.
The more time spent in God's Word, with The Holy Spirit revealing the truth, we mature in faith.
People who critize Word of Faith believers,do not like to hear truth they want to pass on their Pastors personal interptation of God's Truth.
By staying in the Word, God starts to bring us to the knowlage of His will,for our obedience and for our protection over the enemy.
Faith in modern day is not as simple as it was early in the first Churches.

People were not taught from generation to generation that God's power Heals, Blesses ,and is life changing to the point where by we can walk in the Spirit, we can speak with God, and we can boldly come to the throne of Grace.
There is no mention that ALL the promises of God are yes and amen.
If we ponder this simple truth, you would think we would be grabbing our Bibles and finding every promise that Christ paid for.

Instead people place condition on God's Love and put a big qualifier called IF IT BE THINE WILL.
Sure there are verses that deal with people who presume the wrong things about God, He is not a Genie and we do not command Him.
Yet as the old hymn Standing on the Promises of God says we will gain more Faith the more time we seek His Will in His Word, therefore the If is deleted because we know.

Here is a passage that touches my heart:

Acts 14: 8. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9. The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10. Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

Verse 9 Paul perceived his Faith.
If only today we could perceive those who have Faith for their afflictions to be healed.
Today the hidden man of the heart has been beaten down, to unbelief.

The way I understand Paul in Romans is not that positive confession comes from the mind, but instead from the heart. That is, I will naturally speak heart faith. Just as I will naturally speak about the food I'm eating, or the chair I'm sitting in. Because I experience it.

But I cannot produce experience by speaking as though it exists when it does not. Even though all of the promises are yes in Jesus, sometimes situations interfere in receiving them. When we pray, and heart faith is present, we will speak accordingly, based on the evidence within.

 

[now faith]

The way I understand Paul in Romans is not that positive confession comes from the mind, but instead from the heart. That is, I will naturally speak heart faith. Just as I will naturally speak about the food I'm eating, or the chair I'm sitting in. Because I experience it.

But I cannot produce experience by speaking as though it exists when it does not. Even though all of the promises are yes in Jesus, sometimes situations interfere in receiving them. When we pray, and heart faith is present, we will speak accordingly, based on the evidence within.

Yes, evidence with in.
I have been posting lately with a purpose in mind.
Between the devil , the secular world and a lot of Churches, having Faith and seeing the evidence manifested is non existent.
I know people with serious conditions that will not go to the elders for prayer and anointing.
I tell them of the evidences I have witnessed, and it is brushed away.
I took pictures of my own healing, and it has no effect.
It is to say the least discouraging.
My doctor was shocked to see a bad tear in my quadracep, disappear .
She looked at me and was stunned.
I had blood inside my lower hip covering much of my hip and leg.l
It cleared and left a depression on my lower quad.
In a week I was playing tennis, in 2 weeks you could not tell anything had happened no depression or blood.
2 weeks after the laying on of hands I was made whole.
I have torn other muscles, they always left a depression or split, still today.
So I may sound like Fred Price with evidence, but Bless God I know I am healed.
God Bless

 

[now faith]

Love is still greater.

Love is the Mother of Faith, what child does not have Faith in their parents?