Faith Healing

[kimanne]

Apologist - Thanks for the heads up on Hanegraaff. I've listened to him alot, but I've always tried to listen with a discerning spirit. He's a really an "in your face" kind of guy, and that's what I like about him, he's not afraid to give you his opinion, but he's quick to say if someone is a false prophet or spouts false doctrine. That makes me a little wary. But he does seem to always back his claims up with their own words. I guess I've been a smidgen hesitate on him, not trusting my own opinions, hoping he's really what he seems to be - a real Christian trying to spread the Word, and exposing false doctrine and people so that those of us really seeking, will not be mislead.

I'm quite trusting, until I hear/see a rather obvious gaff, and appreciate your opinions on Hanegraaf! ~kim

 

[Yauming]

http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/h13.html#objections

Seems like Hank is getting a lot of flak too. A few groups include an anon group are trying to mount a smear campaign against him.

The main problem seems to be about a question of focus in CRI. Hank's predessor went after groups from outside the mainstream church. Hank is going after groups within the church.

Anyhow, I'm going to Word bookstore and see whether I can get some of Hank's books.

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by kimanne
Apologist - Thanks for the heads up on Hanegraaff. I've listened to him alot, but I've always tried to listen with a discerning spirit. He's a really an "in your face" kind of guy, and that's what I like about him, he's not afraid to give you his opinion, but he's quick to say if someone is a false prophet or spouts false doctrine. That makes me a little wary. But he does seem to always back his claims up with their own words. I guess I've been a smidgen hesitate on him, not trusting my own opinions, hoping he's really what he seems to be - a real Christian trying to spread the Word, and exposing false doctrine and people so that those of us really seeking, will not be mislead.

I'm quite trusting, until I hear/see a rather obvious gaff, and appreciate your opinions on Hanegraaf! ~kim

I don't think it should make you weary when Hank calls someone a false prophet if he has proof. Remember what Paul said in Acts 20:29-31: For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
I think more Christians should remember this verse as it is extremely relevant today. Hank is a good guy who has a passion for the truth and I have modeled a lot of my thinking after his example. Keep on listening and learning it will be worth it.

God Bless

 

[solo66 man]

Yes Hanegraaff is a good teacher. The most important thing I have heard him say is the best way to know a counterfeit is to know the real thing. Know the Word in your heart and when anyone comes along and starts spouting off about some teaching
you will know if it is counterfeit or not.
As far as healing, speaking in tongues, etc. It is in the Bible and it is real. I have witnessed healing of cancer, bareness, addiction, and other things. God does perform miracles, but not for the reasons may believe, always. Many times it is to glorify God, other times it is to get someone back on the path and a variety of reasons.
God does answer prayer.

 

[norman]

for kim,

But I am skeptical, and wish I knew the hearts of these healers. Would they do it in a little tent in some small town for free??? I wonder what God thinks of these things? ~kim

as one who is involved with the faith movement, let me try to reveal the heart that would be necessary to be used by the Holy Spirit, it must operate in pure love, love for God and love for the person in whom you would be praying for. you must see that person through the love of God, you must be able to hurt with there hurt and suffer in there pain from your heart, and desire sincerly from your heart for God to remove there sickness or obsticle needed removed. i do it friquently wherever i am, weather in public or the work place, and have seen many people healed some even instantly, some of incurrable diseases, and never for a fee, just to hear them give God the glory and to be obedient to God. ( regards norman)

for apologist,

For an eye opener read "Christianity In Chrisis" by Hank Hanegraaff. It explains how these spiritual con artists use slight of hand and slight of mind to make people believe their fake "healings." <snip> is a classic example.

christanity in crisis is a book full of quotes of people taken out of there original context, in order to sell cic and make hank a ton of money. recently hank has come under attack for doing the exact same things he labels others of being heretic.
he lives a very luxurious life style taking from cri a hudge salary, will the rest of the staff gets poverty wages, he copies materials of others. etc.etc., but worst of all he attacks God by attacking men ordained by God. i want to give you one example of hh misquoting kenneth Copeland in christanity in crisis, i do not read kenneth coplands materials so i have no need to try and defend kc, i merly want to point out the error of christanity in crisis. these quotes come from a audio tape by kenneth copeland entitled "the incarnation" (which by the way cic is silent on the title of the tape also). i will just copy one of my discussions from another forum. begin of my quote....
to give you a good example of modern day self proclaimed hersey hunters misquoting and taking things out of context to try and condem people as heretic. let me quote "christanity in crisis" by hank hendegraph pp138, here hh is trying to say kenneth copeland is denying that Jesus was God (his divinity) begin quote from cic book..
what [why] does God have to pay the price for this thing? (sin) He has to have a man that is like that first one. it's got to be a man. He's got to be all man. He cannot be a God and come storming in here with attributes and dignities that are not common to man. He can't do that. it's not legal ... end quote from cic book by hh, (sin) bracket added by me.
now from this statment it would apear kenneth copeland did say Jesus was not God or divine.
what was the rest of kenneth copelands statment which hank hendragaph left out, here it is....begin quote There had to be a man, but it also had to be a man as pure as the first one [adam], and there wasn't anybody left like that but God. Now somehow or another there's got to be an incarnation, theres got to be a man filled with God-ther's got to be a God-man come unto the earth...end quote from quenching the Spirit pp 272
kenneth copeland was stating that Jesus was fully man and fully God in the entire context of his statment, to cut it in half and try and say that kenneth Copeland was denying that Jesus was God, is down right terrible, and unfortunatly many people believe it to be gospel and will turn around and repeat these statments as gospel, without checking for themselves the entire context of what was said. Those repeating this un holy slander are just as guilty as those that originally made them, especially if they do not do there own private research of the acusations.
NOTE: orthodox Christian doctrin is that Jesus was fully a man, and that Jesus was Fully God (divine). NOTICE I DID NOT SAY "A GOD" I SAID GOD.
end of my quote at another forum.........
regards norman http://www.faith-in-Jesus.org
info concerning hank hanegraaff

another article on hh

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by norman

for apologist, christanity in crisis is a book full of quotes of people taken out of there original context, in order to sell cic and make hank a ton of money. recently hank has come under attack for doing the exact same things he labels others of being heretic.
he lives a very luxurious life style taking from cri a hudge salary, will the rest of the staff gets poverty wages, he copies materials of others. etc.etc., but worst of all he attacks God by attacking men ordained by God. i want to give you one example of hh misquoting kenneth Copeland in christanity in crisis, i do not read kenneth coplands materials so i have no need to try and defend kc, i merly want to point out the error of christanity in crisis.

Interesting that a book full of "misquotes" has received the Gold Medallion award for excellence from the Christian book sellers association. I am tired of hearing these charismatics make claims against Hank and CRI. They are only doing it because he is exposing their heresy and it is cutting into their money. Kenneth Copeland is one of the worst teachers you could ever listen to so don't try and defend that heretics false teachings to me. I have heard the audio clips of these word of faith heretics and it is clear that they have absolutely no idea what scripture teaches!

God Bless

 

[rkbo]

Norman, I have loaned my Christianity in Crisis book to someone and would like to take a closer look at page 138. I would be very surprised if you haven't missunderstood Hanks charge. I have never seen him make a claim he couldn't back up in context and by multiple sources. You see his neck is always on the line, everyday. He is very careful and he is human. I'm watching for him to make a big mistake. I am grateful he hasn't so far. He will make a distinction between in house debates , erronious teachings, and out right heresy.

I will take issue with you concerning these things you have said:

christanity in crisis is a book full of quotes of people taken out of there original context, in order to sell cic and make hank a ton of money. recently hank has come under attack for doing the exact same things he labels others of being heretic.

This is a charge by you. Please back up the "book full of quotes" and the "taken out of there original context" charge.
Also explain how Hank is doing "the exact same things" as the labeled heretics. It's easy to charge someone of something but quite another to back it up. I for one have listened since the 70's when Walter Martin was the Bible Answer Man and Hank was a guest.

Please show me and the rest of us some concrete evidence or else you are quilty of false charges.

 

[norman]

apologist,

Interesting that a book full of "misquotes" has received the Gold Medallion award for excellence from the Christian book sellers association.

Harry potter movies won alot of awards too, but it doesn't make it Godly.

Kenneth Copeland is one of the worst teachers you could ever listen to so don't try and defend that heretics false teachings to me.

if you re-read my post you will see i am not defending kenneth copeland, i do not read or listen too kc's material. i am pointing out the fact that christanity in crisis does in fact take statments made by people out of the context of there original meaning and delibretly twist them to try and condem a person, namley kc, that is un Godly. i have shown 1 example of this so far from his book and there are many more. another example would be his statment concerning essek william kenyon, on pp 331, the susposed father of the faith movement, being impacted by the new thought metaphysics. sorry no points there neither. the faith movement was long under way before mary baker eddy and christian science came into the scene, there was the faith-cure ministers and the methodist-holliness movment , fully developed and established well before christian science, also christian science teaches there is no devil and there is no sickness it is imaginary, faith teachers teach sickness comes from the devil, and sickness is real, it just does not belong to Christians, we do not have to keep it any more than sin belongs to us. if you read the writtings of the faith-curists from the 1800's and read kenyons you will find them simular.

rkbo when you get your cic book back, go to page 138 and read what hh wrote then obtain a copy of the incarnation tape from kenneth copeland and listen to the tape in it's entirity, the full context and then decide for your self, also i put 2 links on the original post, they are pages concerning charges members of cri have brought against hh, and also charges the family of walter martin brought against hh concerning the take over of cri after martins death, and the fact that they state he is not a qualified theologin. but the greatest proof of all is Gods Word, for the most part the faith movements theology is in full accordance with the word of God, therfore hh's theology is not correct, ie speaking in tounges, casting out devils, healing the sick, and have total faith in God and God's Word.

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by norman
apologist,
Harry potter movies won alot of awards too, but it doesn't make it Godly.

And you think that is a fair comparison? I mentioned a Christian book sellers association and you are going to compare it to a secular organization that likes Harry Potter's worthless books?
That is a rediculous comparison.

also i put 2 links on the original post, they are pages concerning charges members of cri have brought against hh, and also charges the family of walter martin brought against hh concerning the take over of cri after martins death, and the fact that they state he is not a qualified theologin.

And you expect us to believe a link on the internet where lies are every day occurances? That web site is just another hyper-charismatic who doesn't like CRI's work.

but the greatest proof of all is Gods Word, for the most part the faith movements theology is in full accordance with the word of God, therfore hh's theology is not correct, ie speaking in tounges, casting out devils, healing the sick, and have total faith in God and God's Word

Hank doesn't speak out against tongues so why did you mention it? If you had listened to him at all you would know that he believes tongues still exist, but that they are not normative.
Why didn't you mention the real problems with the 'Word of Faith' movement like Holy laughter, slain in the spirit, gold fillings in teeth, gold dust falling on the service, and a host of other unbiblical teachings?

 

[norman]

Hank doesn't speak out against tongues so why did you mention it? If you had listened to him at all you would know that he believes tongues still exist, but that they are not normative.

is hank not the Bible answer man???

Why didn't you mention the real problems with the 'Word of Faith' movement like Holy laughter, slain in the spirit, gold fillings in teeth, gold dust falling on the service, and a host of other unbiblical teachings?

never seen none of that except of course slain in the spirit, i think you are confussing alot of diffrent denominations there, besides alot of that could be classified emotionlism, a group being a bit over emoniational does not make them heretics, heretics are incorrect in there major doctrin postions, namley salvation, trinity, etc. etc. if being diffrent on minor things makes a group heretics then every group but the one you belong to is heretics, ie if you are a baptist then the methodists are heretics, and if you are a methodist then the presbetarians are heretics. the list goes on and on.

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by norman

is hank not the Bible answer man???

Yes he is the host of the Bible Answer Man broadcast. I have been listening to him for about 6 years now so I think I know what he teaches. He believes tongues still exist but that they are not normative as I said before.

never seen none of that except of course slain in the spirit, i think you are confussing alot of diffrent denominations there

What does denominations have to do with it? The Word of Faith movement that is proposed by people like Hinn, Copeland, Hagin and others is not a denomination, it is a belief system that teaches that faith is a force and words are the container of that force. These peole believe that you can create your own reality by literally speaking it into existance. If you don't think that is heretical then you my friend are deceived.

God Bless

 

[Yauming]

I'm going to close this thread because it is getting Off Tangent (OT).

This is getting to be more of a discussion, interesting perhaps but OT, on Hank Hanegraaff's works and even his integrity.

So to be fair to him and to have a more open discussion, I will open a new thread that discusses HH's works.

I should point out that (there is a claim that) the staff of CRI, particularly the children of HH's predessor, is also unhappy with HH. I don't know what's the truth behind that one.

I would like to remind all parties to be civil and careful in how they phrase their words. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. It would displease our Lord if we hurl scorn and insults at each other; not to mention make the devil's day.

Please when make you, you try to use proper punctuation and paragraph structure in your posts. It is awfully hard to read the message otherwise.

Cheers,

YM