Faith and Science

[Jo555]

Faith and Science​

​

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. ~Romans 1:20


“How can anyone not believe in God?!”

Looking back at where I had been before I made that exclamation, I thought of how unfounded my apprehensions were. What awaited me did not shed doubts on my faith. In fact, it strengthened it.

I’ll have to set the scene for you.

Some number of years ago I had entered college seeking a higher education and the sciences were part of my curriculum. I wondered, Would it shed doubts on my belief in God? What awaited me in the sciences?

See, back in the day religion and science were viewed as polar opposites. They were arch enemies and their children weren’t allowed to play together. It was widely believed that science was set on disproving the existence of God, while religion held tightly to claims of his existence.

Each set up their own concentration camps that refuted the claims of the other. To venture away from one’s camp was asking for trouble. After all, what good could come of it? No, it was best to stick with one’s own kind.

And what would I learn of Darwin’s crazy claims that our distant cousins were apes, and great, great, great, great . . . Grandma and Grandpa had fins?

As I knew it, the only genetic makeup my supposed cuz and I shared was dirt.

Then there was The Big Bang Theory; a cosmic explosion that birthed the universe and all her children.

Well, that wasn’t so far fetched. I can totally see something magnificent happen when God spoke the universe into existence.

So I ventured into the sciences, armed with my prayer and the awareness that my faith was based on more than surface knowledge. And, was I in for an education.

For one, it amazed me to learn that even a tiny cell in the human body knows what to do in its environment, and does it well. And who gave all life forms their instincts and built in knowledge? Sure, science had answers to those questions, but for me science's answers fell short without an engineer behind it. Who but a Master Designer can create such a masterpiece? Objective facts not only revealed our defensive position, it also revealed our offensive one for all around us God has left his fingerprints, testimony to his existence, as the book of Romans so rightfully claims. Back in the day many used science with all its facts to claim that religion was a bunch of nonsense some dudes created to make sense of it all, yet after examining all the evidence, not only did I still strongly believe, I thought it would be a difficult thing not to believe in God (although a bit wiser now, I know there is more to it than that, John 6:43-45).

There's evidence everywhere that makes sense of it. The whole world speaks of his existence.

I learned a valuable lesson in college. There are wonderful opportunities awaiting us to get to know God more intimately; to deepen our faith. Our apprehensions and fears need not hinder us from that process. We can trust God to keep us and deepen our faith as we invite Him with us. Doubt need not be our enemy for it can reveal just how deep our faith runs. And if we turn to Him with our fears and doubt instead of hiding in shame, He will reveal Himself to us and the roots of our faith will continue to go deeper.

 

[AV1611VET]

Check out this book, Jo:

The constellations are pictographs of the plan of salvation.

By way of example, Aries is not a ram.

Aries is a lamb.

The Lamb of God.

And when it went dark for three hours during the crucifixion, what do you think they saw over the Cross?

You got it!

Aries, the Lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the world!

And Gemini?

They aren't twins.

They are one and the same Person.

Jesus Christ -- King of kings, and Lord of lords!

 

[Aaron112]

It was not night during the execution. It was dark, very dark, maybe like never before.

There were no constellations visible. No stars visible.

Note. This might change.

 

[Jo555]

Check out this book, Jo:

View attachment 361247

The constellations are pictographs of the plan of salvation.

By way of example, Aries is not a ram.

Aries is a lamb.

The Lamb of God.

And when it went dark for three hours during the crucifixion, what do you think they saw over the Cross?

You got it!

Aries, the Lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the world!

And Gemini?

They aren't twins.

They are one and the same Person.

Jesus Christ -- King of kings, and Lord of lords!

Cool. I'll check it out. I find the study of God's creation fascinating and can see scriptures come to life in it.

 

[AV1611VET]

It was not night during the execution.

Correct.

It was not night.

It was dark from noon to three.

It was dark, very dark, maybe like never before.

Yup -- from noon to three.

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

There were no constellations visible. No stars visible.

I somehow don't think you were there.

No offense.

 

[Jo555]

Cool. I'll check it out. I find the study of God's creation fascinating and can see scriptures come to life in it.

I downloaded the free sample to my kindle. Has great reviews. Looking forward to reading, and most likely purchasing. Right now I'm reading a really good book by another CF member. I should be done with that one soon.

 

[Jo555]

Jesus often pointed to creation when speaking of spiritual properties for what we see in the natural is a manifestation of the spiritual.

I am the vine, ye are the branches.
You will know them by their fruit.
Looks at the birds in the air ...
The sower and the seed.

There was a time that they had no scriptures, but He still spoke, and still speaks to us today, in several ways, one being his creation.

We have God-breathed scripture now, but God still does speak to us through his creation too, and his Spirit of course.

We can't see the feelings of love, but they are manifested in our actions.

We can't see fear, but we can see how it imprisons us.

We can't see the wind, but we can feel it.

We can't see the cold, but we feel it. Unless you want to count snow, but snow isn't always present.

 

[Jo555]

Thinking I may be able to use this to excuse my vegetative state of late:

Yes, humans do share some DNA with lettuce ...

They say it's a teeny amount, so not sure how well that will fly.

 

[Jo555]

I see it as both, but I'm funny that way.


I'm a chick. We like our sparkles. Isn't it pretty?

Now, you see. We are more alike than you think. The claims made by atheist, but i do not see it as unbelievable as the word of God I believe in clues me in.

But I know i didn't get where I am at on my own, when I was in college though I thought I had something to brag about there. You know, the more foolish we can be in our youth. You eat some humble pie along the way.


I dropped out of HS as soon as I could. Moved from NY to FL. It was quite racist back then and they made fun of my accent, in their southern hospitality, racist way. Before dropping out I spent a good deal of my days hanging at Daytona beach or hiding from the police in the orange groves.

And running like mad from the gigantic fruit flies.

You can say I totally missed HS, but i know what you mean because the days I wasn't a no show, the stuff they taught I learned in Jr high in NY. At the least, in the school I attended.

I got my GED and started college believe before most of my peers.


I was talking about back in the day. How old are you?


I think I'm cute with my symbolism. Jesus is still teaching me though. Not politically correct hum? Does politically correct fit?


We do share in a large gene pool with them, but I don't agree. There is a huge difference.


I know. Just saying, and was being cute again.


I made a small account there, and you compare it to mythology. Ok, can't wait to see what is next.


Isn't it marvelous? You must agree with me on that point.


Such a shame. I found yours very interesting. Sorry to disappoint you, but thanks for the feedback. I enjoyed it.

Can you tell me what your belief is in how these cells have all this knowledge?

Cool how we have like a whole community living inside of us. They share, they fight foreign invaders. Very complex, but marvelous.

Running past my bed time, but will check in again soon.

 

[Jo555]

Geesh, my phone keeps freaking out on me and keep losing my response. Now I'm short on time to rewrite this one. No worries though, I'll be back, God willing.

Cheap phone. Guess you get what you pay for. I just don't see the point in spending good money on something I will break in a short time.

 

[Jo555]

Although this incredulous interaction between brain signals and hormones does provide us with some evidence that love exists, it doesn't give us a physical form to love. We can feel it though, we can see the interaction within this vast community inside of us. We can see its effect on our health and well-being. We can even see the interaction of love between human beings.

Now what comes first, love, or the interplay between the different characters within us?

Kinda like what comes first, the chicken or the egg? My answer would be dirt, but you knew that already.

For the sake of continuing the discussion, as I'm no rocket scientist (I know, it's a play on words), let us say it is the fireworks going off in our head (I know, it's a play on words).
What lit the match that set this marvelous display in motion?

To continue the discussion even further (no rocket scientist thingy again, or thingo if you come from Australia), let us say it is the instinct to survive. Where did this instinct come from?

I hope we can have fun with this because I see a lot of potential. Hopefully we can do that with respect while seeing the funny side of our human behavior. I have hope we can do that, although I haven't seen much evidence on this site, but I'm very hopeful.

On that note, can one see hope?

--------------------

And just to add, in the first portion of the article I am communicating that these were the thoughts I had when I was in college. As I also said, I'm a bit wiser now and it no longer surprises me that some don't believe (Romans 1 and the scripture I referenced, as a Christian, in the article). God is ultimately in control even if we do have our more minor role, from a "belief in God" perspective of course. It's humbling.

I also do now see where evolution and creation can co-exist to a degree, but not as far as Darwin took it. Looks fishy to me. And I do not believe humans are monkeys, and science agrees as far as I know, although it can be easy to believe if we look at behavior. We both also like bananas. I put that on the banana.

Are we having fun yet?

I'm just happy my phone behaved.

 

[Jo555]

They do not know God. When you look at the god they do not believe in. I do not believe in their god either.

God is a God of absolute and perfect Justice. But they want to claim that He is NOT Just.

Yes, I do believe it takes a matter of some level of faith to believe in one or the other. Science is not infallible. That is more on us.

How can they claim that if they don't even believe in Him?

Now I am not saying all. I don't know, but what I often see in the misconceptions atheists have of God, and some believers for that matter, is trying to understand the concept of our God by portions of scripture, instead of how the portions fit into the larger picture. We are not infallible either.

 

[Jo555]

They do not know God. When you look at the god they do not believe in. I do not believe in their god either.

God is a God of absolute and perfect Justice. But they want to claim that He is NOT Just.

Yes, I do believe it takes a matter of some level of faith to believe in one or the other. Science is not infallible. That is more on us.

How can they claim that if they don't even believe in Him?

Now I am not saying all. I don't know, but what I often see in the misconceptions atheists have of God, and some believers for that matter, is trying to understand the concept of our God by portions of scripture, instead of how the portions fit into the larger picture. We are not infallible either, in our humanity that is.

Yes, I do believe it takes a matter of some level of faith to believe in one or the other. Science is not infallible. That is more on us.

How can they claim that if they don't even believe in Him?

Now I am not saying all. I don't know, but what I often see in the misconceptions atheists have of God, and some believers for that matter, is trying to understan of Him d the concept of our God by portions of scripture, instead of how the portions fit into the larger picture. We are not infallible either.

We do have the one that is infallible though and I would imagine that would come across as haughty to an unbeliever, at least for some, but that is not to say we are not infallible in our understanding of Him.

We recognize the existence of the infallible, in God, and they in the sciences, but I believe as we get to the truth in each, each will speak of God, infallibly.

 

[Jo555]

Am I not discussing science? I don't see this as just a testimony, but a discussion on science, and we've discussed some evidence presented.

What am I missing because to me this seems to fit in nicely, but I've been wrong before and expect that it won't be the last time either.

So the original post my belief in the things that are seen and the natural properties we see in life as evidence to the existence of God.

Later I was told there was no evidence, and was given said proof regarding chemical and hormonal reactions when I mentioned love.

I did not agree that this disproves the existence of a God that cannot be seen, for just as we have evidence that love is happening, but cannot see a manifestation of it, we have evidence all around us that speaks of the existence of God, even if we cannot see Him.

How is this not part of life and science?

 

[Jo555]

I think we need a moderator to look at this and I will accept their decision.

Thank you.

I'll hold my comments regarding this until we get a response.

 

[Jo555]

But I am talking science. Anyway, let's see if a moderator pops in.

Who is the moderator in this section?

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[linux.poet]

MOD HAT ON​

This thread has been moved from Physical and Life Sciences to Testimonies.

(As Testimonies is a Christians-Only subforum, a cleanup of unbeliever posts has been done.)

This thread is being reopened.​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Aaron112]

"We have already discussed the testamentary procedure in an earlier chapter. We can well imagine the torment of Yahshua, Mary, and Yohannan Eleazar during these last few moments, yet it was fitting that family members were present to say goodbye for what they believed was the last time. Legally, family and friends were not allowed to be present during the execution until near the time of death, when they were called for last-minute words. It was only when Yahshua had spoken these final words that he said "I thirst", and after having been given a merciful drink of water mixed with wine, declared "It is finished".

Yahshua was dead. His disciples had fled and were in hiding, anxious for their own lives and disappointed in their Messiah. They hadn’t made arrangements for his burial. They assumed Yahshua would be treated like other criminals and buried in the criminal’s graveyard, perhaps in a grave that was unmarked and would soon be forgotten.

And they did not bury [the felon] in the burial grounds of his ancestors. But there were two graveyards made ready for the use of the court, one for those who were beheaded or strangled, and ONE FOR THOSE WHO WERE STONED OR BURNED [Mishnah, Sanhedrin 6:5 e,f].

Once Yahshua was taken down from the tree, even his broken body was in danger, but as we shall learn in the next chapter, Yahvah, Himself, would provide a solitary tomb for Yahshua, one that still exists and is in usable condition."​

EXEC

CHAPTER NINE

THE EXECUTION

(Taken from A Book of Evidence © N. L. Kuehl)

 

[rachelrising]

I also want to point people to the work of Hugo Ross who is a scientist and Christian and has written on this subject as well. He has got some very important things to say on this subject.

Hugh Ross

Reasons to Believe emerged from my passion to research, develop, and proclaim compelling new reasons to believe in Jesus Christ as Creator, Lord, and Savior and to use these new reasons to help people put their trust in him. I am eager to equip Christians to engage in conversation with...

reasons.org