Failed Attempt at Counseling.

[meyerjd]

My wife and I have been married for 19 years now. The last 5 have been very rough. My wife had three affairs in that time. One resulted in a pregnancy/abortion. She also has chronic health problems. After all of this, she finally agreed to attend couseling. We selected a Christian Counselor together. When we went to the appointment, she refused to speak to the counselor or me for the entire hour. When we got up to leave, she began to punch me over and over. She broke my glasses, which cut my face. When we got out to the parking lot, she refused to let me in the car. I tried walking home, since I was too ashamed to call a friend for a ride. I ended up needing to call someone. The appointment was 20 miles from our home. Needless to say that was our attempt at counseling. I don't believe in divorce, so I don't think things will change. Just getting harder to deal with all of this.

 

[Endeavourer]

What are her complaints? What topics was she upset about?

 

[meyerjd]

My wife finds being with different sexual partners highly arousing. She also likes the money and nice house I provide. I'm a Christian. She used to be but now practices Wicca. She keeps attending church with the kids and me for their sake. She knows this troubles me but is also aware that I will not divorce her. I guess her complaints center around how different we have become.

 

[Endeavourer]

I’m so sorry Sir, but there is no marriage here to save. So sorry.

I would advise that you expose her behavior to the kids (if they don’t already know), separate from her and divorce. Remarriage is a different topic, as to whether you believe the Bible gives that grace to you after unfaithfulness, but you are damaging and confusing your children to affirm her behavior by continuing to accept it.

Your children already know something is wrong and may be blaming themselves. It is your responsibility to tell them the truth about their lives. Also if they see you affirming this type of behavior they will become confused. Do not have your wife participate when you tell them.

 

[ripple the car]

That sounds horrible. God graciously bless you for putting up with all that. I am curious as to why, in her words, she is staying. She is abusive, spiritually rebellious and on a bad path, unfaithful, and cruel. She doesn't seem to want counseling, either.

Does your pastor know about this? There seems to be a pretty strong spiritual element to all of this.

 

[snoochface]

When you got up to leave the counselor's office, she just randomly and without warning began punching you repeatedly to the point that she broke your glasses. I'm really curious to know what the counselor's reaction was. Why didn't he or she call the police to report an assault taking place in front of her?

You should go to counseling by yourself and figure out why you allow this abuse to continue in your and your children's lives.

 

[meyerjd]

That sounds horrible. God graciously bless you for putting up with all that. I am curious as to why, in her words, she is staying. She is abusive, spiritually rebellious and on a bad path, unfaithful, and cruel. She doesn't seem to want counseling, either.

Does your pastor know about this? There seems to be a pretty strong spiritual element to all of this.

My Pastor is aware, but does not offer counseling. My wife's 2nd affair/pregnancy/abortion was with one of my good friends who happened to be pastor of the local Evangelical Free Church. The third affair was with the pastor of the Baptist Church she was attending at the time. So you are right there is a big spiritual aspect to this.

 

[Monksailor]

I’m so sorry Sir, but there is no marriage here to save. So sorry.


I would advise that you expose her behavior to the kids (if they don’t already know), separate from her and divorce. Remarriage is a different topic, as to whether you believe the Bible gives that grace to you after unfaithfulness, but you are damaging and confusing your children to affirm her behavior by continuing to accept it.

Your children already know something is wrong and may be blaming themselves. It is your responsibility to tell them the truth about their lives. Also if they see you affirming this type of behavior they will become confused. Do not have your wife participate when you tell them.

There are two above this which could fit your advice now. Are you addressing both or one?

 

[meyerjd]

When you got up to leave the counselor's office, she just randomly and without warning began punching you repeatedly to the point that she broke your glasses. I'm really curious to know what the counselor's reaction was. Why didn't he or she call the police to report an assault taking place in front of her?

You should go to counseling by yourself and figure out why you allow this abuse to continue in your and your children's lives.

The counselor wanted to call the police, but I said not to. The kids actually do pretty well. While we all live in the same house, my wife does not interact with the rest of the family very much.

 

[ripple the car]

My Pastor is aware, but does not offer counseling. My wife's 2nd affair/peegnancy/abortion was with one of my good friends who happened to be pastor of the local Evangelical Free Church. He third affair was with the pastor of the Baptist Church she was attending at the time. So you are right there is a big spiritual aspect to this.

Wow, man.... dang.... I would definitely get spiritual and emotional counseling for yourself, and if possible, have your home blessed. Catholic and Orthodox priests will often do this for you, even if you are neither Catholic nor Orthodox. The spiritual element in this is staggering. Wow...

Christ graciously protect you, and your kids, and grant your wife insight into how totally messed up her soul has become.

 

[Monksailor]

Meyerjd, Truthfully, NONE of us here are qualified to give you advise to aid you in achieving what you apparently desire, even if we were a professional counselor. This relationship will NEVER be re-conciliated through one person's story. BOTH have to be heard and respected from THEIR perspective in order to work it out. If reconciliation is TRULY what you want then the first requirement is conviction: that each of you must be willing to own up to the actions or in-actions which precipitated to the erosion of your relationship which most likely started long before adultery. This is just the first thing in reconciliation gotten from a well known Christian Counselor, Patrick Doyle, giving an interview on reconciliation at

 

[meyerjd]

Meyerjd, Truthfully, NONE of us here are qualified to give you advise to aid you in achieving what you apparently desire, even if we were a professional counselor. This relationship will NEVER be re-conciliated through one person's story. BOTH have to be heard and respected from THEIR perspective in order to work it out. If reconciliation is TRULY what you want then the first requirement is conviction: that each of you must be willing to own up to the actions or in-actions which precipitated to the erosion of your relationship which most likely started long before adultery. This is just the first thing in reconciliation gotten from a well known Christian Counselor, Patrick Doyle, giving an interview on reconciliation at

I know there isn't much people can say about this, and that's ok. I feel better just getting my story out.

 

[Monksailor]

I have been through a very tough relational ordeal, also. I really wish that I had practiced some of the techniques Brian shares. It IS a real good video on dealing with difficult people in a marriage. He IS absolutely right when he tells us to hold people, esp our loved ones, to healthy boundaries regardless of how much they appeal to our mercy or cut us off. As he says, it really is our way of showing our love for them. There is another video on setting boundaries right there under this one on you tube by him. One thing he did not really say on the reconciliation video is that with difficult people (incorrigible, "dense," self-absolved, and such) they don't even recognize they are hurting others. When I went back to college after I retired to update my resume one of the courses I took, Interpersonal Communications, taught us how to deal with difficult people.The last thing to do is to tell them that they have a problem BUT you must tell them that their behavior is hurting you and unacceptable to you. I, we, can assume that the offender must know that they are hurting us and that it is unacceptable to us, but their position could be that if I, we, truly loved them (and ourselves-we cannot truly love others if we don't love ourselves healthfully) I would inform them that they are hurting me and the behavior is unacceptable; that they are better than that. What was suggested was that we tell them the following and leave the appropriate discovery and response up to them WHILE continuing to love them and maintaining any boundary needed to keep it from happening again. "When you do/say _______(briefly identify behavior); it violates me and hurts me; this makes me feel __________ (angry, sad, etc.)" Leave it like that and wait for conviction. I wish that I had remembered that more recently in another relationship. One must wait till they can use this phrase with self-control and not get into accusatory, arguing, retaliatory innuendos. The focus is on their BEHAVIOR and how it affects ME/YOU. They cannot argue or dismiss how it makes you feel.

 

[Monksailor]

My problem was that I didn't really love myself. Jesus and Paul tell us that we must love ourselves before we can love others or our wives when they tell us to love others or our wives AS we love ourselves:

• Jesus: Matthew 22:39
• Paul: Ephesians 5:33

I was raised under circumstances which would have put my father in prison today but in those days the authorities left such matters alone. They were family matters which it was believed no one else had jurisdiction over. I am still learning to healthfully love myself (and others) at 65!!! By holding others accountable for their actions which violate us and maintaining healthy boundaries in our relationships we show that we love ourselves, which is the beginning of loving others.
I prayed for your relationship last night and will again today for whatever your particular situation is.

It is good to share your pain with others in a confidential manner. I have done too much of non-confidential sharing it in my past. It was a way to ventilate but it was also a way to belay or procrastinate seemingly impossible action on my part especially when I found those who sympathized with my lot. The Bible tells us to guard out heart. Many times when we share our sufferings with a lack of confidence or discretion (do not ever assume it is there), it comes back to bite us, and NOT in just the hind part. Again, in loving ourselves, we do not make ourselves (AND our loved ones) vulnerable to attack. Ephesians 5:27 lays the burden upon husbands to sanctify, so to speak, their wives even as Christ did the church. So we have to be mindful of keeping our wives "clean" as we are "one flesh" and if they are hurt, eventually we will hurt. Assured confidentiality is hard to find online and it is a shame counseling cost so much and our insurances do not help much, if at all, for that kind of health care. Having had 2 or 3 pastors violate you in such a deep and horrible manner is inconceivable. Shame, shame, shame on them!!!!! I would CERTAINLY seek out a different denomination or at least church as one of my first boundaries; THREE different times and THREE different pastors?????!!!!!

But I must concede here that online relationships, chats, discussions are very, very limited in discerning truth. For all I know, you could really be a Christian hater trying to cause derision and a falling out of ranks with your story. Satan has developed very effective schemes of conquering from within. I hope that this is not the case. And I AM praying for you two.

WARNING: Christian Counseling, most of the time, is not objective but rather SUBJECTIVE to THEIR understanding of what THEY think God wants for you. This was a problem for me in the early years of our marriage. There is naturally a strong bias towards keeping any marriage intact, regardless of personal damage. They kept cramming Ephesians 5:25 down my throat, that I should suffer torture and even death for my wife, even as Christ did for the church. That I had the burden to forgive her into eternity (7 x 70) and NOT expect anything in return. They exploited my lack of a healthy self-love and perpetuated MUCH, MUCH continued damage to me for many years because they cared more for an institution than an individual. All Christians seeking Christian counsel should keep that in mind. "Christian" counseling not only means that they believe forgiveness and prayer are effective healing tools and compassion but it also means that they are most likely going to be biased or subjective in approach in determining ahead of time what the end or goal should be for you as THEY understand the Bible. How many understandings of the Bible are there under the umbrella of Christianity? Do your research and make careful selection of a counselor and at your FIRST session you need to start off with a line of questions for them in order to qualify them to counsel you (you have to guard your heart); like, of the MANY, MANY different levels (degrees) and categories which the "counselor" title may umbrella what are their specifics, what do all of those letters mean; are they going to approach your problem objectively or subjectively, and if subjectively, what are their parameters from the Bible; and so many more that you will come up with and still be in humble submission/respect of their position. If the counselor tries to intimidate you or act like you got a problem in asking these questions in guarding your heart then you have just discovered that they ARE someone from whom you need to guard your heart and I would immediately demand that they cease any and all labors regarding you and vacate that office noting the time to everyone in the lobby as you reiterated your demands of ceasing and desisting and on your cell and make sure that that counselor only got paid for the time it took to determine their incapacity to counsel you and NOTHING more.

 

[Monksailor]

One last thing and I am gone is this. Most Counseling office visits today, other than the first one, are 45 min talk and then you are ushered out as tactfully and kindly as possible and then the counselor is supposed to be analyzing and managing your case with documentation for the rest of the "hour." You are paying about $3 for each min whether you talk or not and regardless of how long it takes you to get your point across. You will get a lot more for your money if you can prepare your thoughts in a concise manner to more efficiently use up your time. This can be hard. Sometimes, silence and just crying is what it takes, but remember that it is $3/min and maybe you can have these moments with the Lord who is always at your side.

Some counselors will let you ramble on and on about all kinds of superfluous matters in your mind which you may be fully capable of working out yourself once your immediate concerns requiring their help are worked out. But they will be glad to help you with ALL and listen to you all you want, for $3-5/min. It is very valuable to have a counselor who will help you keep the focus on the immediate concern, I think.

 

[Dave-W]

I am curious as to why, in her words, she is staying.

The OP answered that:

She also likes the money and nice house I provide.

 

[Endeavourer]

My wife finds being with different sexual partners highly arousing.

Having a pattern of seeking out other sexual partners and intending to continue doing so indicates she has no interest in being married. There is no path forward in a marriage unless she renounces this behavior and changes dramatically.

@meyerjd, you will only be abused and taken advantage of until you start having health issues from the stress and have to take the step of divorcing her anyway. Best to do it now, stop affirming rampant, purposeful adultery to the kids and keep his health.

 

[Endeavourer]

@meyerjd, don't ever let anyone sin level or victim blame. Nothing you have done is responsible for your wife seeking sexual arousal and partners outside of the marriage.

One of the reasons it's often not safe for an abused Christian to seek help from other Christians is the whole prospect of sin leveling and blaming one person for another's abuse and/or sin.

Even if you are a "devout" Christian throwing accusations and Scripture at her, she had no right to get even by seeking sexual partners outside of the marriage, getting pregnant with someone else's baby and to fully intend to continue doing so. IF you have done these things she should not have accepted them but it is no excuse whatsoever for her behavior.

There is no equivalence or level between the two actions whatsoever.

 

[Endeavourer]

The counselor wanted to call the police, but I said not to.

It's too bad you declined this. By protecting her from consequences of her actions you enable her to continue outrageous behavior. Her behavior will not stop if her path to continue it is made smooth.

This is a difficult concept for people who are enabling terrible behavior by their spouse in bad marriages because you've done it so long it's instinctive now. You don't even realize you're sabotaging them and yourself at the same time.

 

[Endeavourer]

My Pastor is aware, but does not offer counseling. My wife's 2nd affair/pregnancy/abortion was with one of my good friends who happened to be pastor of the local Evangelical Free Church. The third affair was with the pastor of the Baptist Church she was attending at the time. So you are right there is a big spiritual aspect to this.

Have you exposed these affairs to these churches? I recommend that you collect proof of the affair and expose them to the churches asap, without her knowledge and without forewarning anyone.

This will be the best outcome for your wife and will expose the truth to all concerned. We all deserve to know the truth about our lives, including the church members who look up to a <fake> pastor. It will also teach your children not to fellowship with the fruits of darkness but expose them. (Ephesians 5:11).