Extropian/posthuman augmentation

[psychedelicist]

You'll have to forgive me as I'm not quite myself tonight. Recently I've been meeting some very interesting people involved in very interesting research. From immortality drugs to illegal construction of AIs by hacker groups, as far as experiments and research on prosthetic limbs and appendages directly wired into one's nervous system, apparently there's a huge surge towards an underground cyberpunk culture. Neurologists, chemists, computer programmers/hackers, working on products and ideas that would be a tremendous benefit to society. What are your feelings on:

1. An "immortality drug" (like a pill or cream that temporarily slows/stops the aging process in cells, I've seen a lot of interesting research on this, but with the amount of stupid people running around on the planet right now it might not be such a good idea to introduce it to the public)

2. Construction of AI's (I've seen some amazingly complex AI's and advanced robot-looking things that can understand suprisingly complex orders in just about any form of english)

3. Development of prosthetic limbs or even "attachments" that can be controlled directly by the nervous system? (I haven't seen too much on this, I have seen prosthetic arms hooked up to a peson without one, directly into his nervous system. It didn't really do anything. But I think it might be a very interesting idea, one I might even like to research. I do have a few ideas actually but I probably shouldn't get into them so as to stay on topic)

4. Any other form of extropian/posthuman augmentation that you could think of (other ideas would be cool to hear)

 

[Nightson]

1. An "immortality drug" (like a pill or cream that temporarily slows/stops the aging process in cells, I've seen a lot of interesting research on this, but with the amount of stupid people running around on the planet right now it might not be such a good idea to introduce it to the public)

The only problem is population control, we can't introduce it to the public until we can support a massive population. Until then, I'd say give it to the most gifted scientists and artists.

2. Construction of AI's (I've seen some amazingly complex AI's and advanced robot-looking things that can understand suprisingly complex orders in just about any form of english)

Very, very cool.

3. Development of prosthetic limbs or even "attachments" that can be controlled directly by the nervous system? (I haven't seen too much on this, I have seen prosthetic arms hooked up to a peson without one, directly into his nervous system. It didn't really do anything. But I think it might be a very interesting idea, one I might even like to research. I do have a few ideas actually but I probably shouldn't get into them so as to stay on topic)

Also very cool, and very useful for those who have lost limbs.

4. Any other form of extropian/posthuman augmentation that you could think of (other ideas would be cool to hear)

Scientists are working on a way to give us for color seeing cones in our eyes instead of the usual three, it'd let us see colors we can't even imagine right now. Improvements to the human brain, mainly through microchip memory, and the ability to communicate with machines using thought. Cellphones built in to your body. The list goes on and on, in a century, humankind will be unrecognizable from what it used to be.

 

[The Seeker]

1. An "immortality drug" (like a pill or cream that temporarily slows/stops the aging process in cells, I've seen a lot of interesting research on this, but with the amount of stupid people running around on the planet right now it might not be such a good idea to introduce it to the public)

Not feasible because of population control and the idea that we should give it out to certain people based on some arbitrary, culturally induced conception of "merit" is a horribly elitist idea, IMO.

2. Construction of AI's (I've seen some amazingly complex AI's and advanced robot-looking things that can understand suprisingly complex orders in just about any form of english)

Interesting and probably technically possible in the future, but I don't see the point myself. What possible use could these AIs be?

3. Development of prosthetic limbs or even "attachments" that can be controlled directly by the nervous system? (I haven't seen too much on this, I have seen prosthetic arms hooked up to a peson without one, directly into his nervous system. It didn't really do anything. But I think it might be a very interesting idea, one I might even like to research. I do have a few ideas actually but I probably shouldn't get into them so as to stay on topic)

This one is very interesting, obviously this would be brilliant for people missing limbs.

You'll have to forgive me as I'm not quite myself tonight. Recently I've been meeting some very interesting people involved in very interesting research. From immortality drugs to illegal construction of AIs by hacker groups, as far as experiments and research on prosthetic limbs and appendages directly wired into one's nervous system, apparently there's a huge surge towards an underground cyberpunk culture. Neurologists, chemists, computer programmers/hackers, working on products and ideas that would be a tremendous benefit to society.

I'm afraid I'm quite a cynic about this stuff. We live in a capitalist society, things are produced based on how much profit they yeild, not on how beneficial to mankind they are. I'm also deeply mistrustful of the idea of being able to directly interact with people's mind via a computer, just look at Ghost in the shell

 

[psychedelicist]

Scientists are working on a way to give us for color seeing cones in our eyes instead of the usual three, it'd let us see colors we can't even imagine right now. Improvements to the human brain, mainly through microchip memory, and the ability to communicate with machines using thought. Cellphones built in to your body. The list goes on and on, in a century, humankind will be unrecognizable from what it used to be.

Some of that kinda scares me. I mean, prosthetic limbs is a very beneficial idea but memory chips... my paranoid nature would cause me to believe that the government could probably use them to keep tracks on people, and you'd have the problem of memory modification, so if one person witnesses a crime, the criminal can just erase that portion of his memory, etc. But some of those do sound pretty cool.

Not feasible because of population control and the idea that we should give it out to certain people based on some arbitrary, culturally induced conception of "merit" is a horribly elitist idea, IMO.

That's true. I just thought that it in itself was a kind of cool idea. Then I started thinking of the consequences and decided it's probably not worth it.

Interesting and probably technically possible in the future, but I don't see the point myself. What possible use could these AIs be?

I actually saw these little robots (they're really advanced and precise, not big clumsy things like you'd think) doing things like chores, math problems, even helping create other AI's (part of their programing is that they can fix their own errors, it's pretty common among regular coputers these days, but they can also help to correct errors in code that the programmers might have made). Think pre-Matrix kind of AI's. Course, that just opens up a whole negative can of worms.

I'm afraid I'm quite a cynic about this stuff. We live in a capitalist society, things are produced based on how much profit they yeild, not on how beneficial to mankind they are. I'm also deeply mistrustful of the idea of being able to directly interact with people's mind via a computer, just look at Ghost in the shell

But these people don't seem to be creating these things for profit, but for the benefit. If they were they'd probably be working in big corporations to create this, not on their own. And actually, it was me watching Ghost in the Shell that introduced me to cyberpunk culture. At first I thought it was just a genre of books, but lo and behold, there are people working to make these kinds of things a reality. The GITS world doesn't seem any more messed up than our own, just in a much different way, anyways.

 

[e=mv^2]

1 - I do not think it is possible. From my perspective noone will excape the Adamic curse.

2 - you mentioned

illegal construction of AIs by hacker groups,

Why would an AI be illegal? I think you have wandered into a 31337 h4x0rz page of delusions. If an AI was to be built it would be done in a university or CERN and not a 15 year old's parents basement.

3 - neat stuff. I have a cousin -in- law (is there such a thing?) that does this type of work. I really do not know alot about it but from what I do know we are getting closer and closer to helping more and more people walk/see/hear/ etc again.

4 - I can see that governments would want to do this type of thing for a super soldier but I can not see it being mainstream. It would instantly destroy sport as we know it. Look onto the new forms of doping that threaten to destroy the sport of cycling. I think you would find them interesting.
DNA alterations that cause the body to produce hormones and chemicals that are like taking steroids or O2 doping. Nanotechnology / certain bacteria can do similar things. I read an article in bicycling magazine that talked about 8-10 different emerging methods. Nasty stuff. I for one say forget about ever jumping over buildings / seeing through walls and just be happy with the amazing machine that we have already been given. It can do some really cool things all by itself.

 

[psychedelicist]

1 - I do not think it is possible. From my perspective noone will excape the Adamic curse.

Well if immortality drugs don't tickle your fancy, I would look into what Raelianism and Clonaid (a company started by Rael and his followers) seem to be getting away with. Rael had the... interesting... idea to clone humans and somehow, by brain transplant or something, shift already living people into new bodies. Sort of the same thing. Scary weird stuff, Raelianism.

2 - you mentioned


Why would an AI be illegal? I think you have wandered into a 31337 h4x0rz page of delusions. If an AI was to be built it would be done in a university or CERN and not a 15 year old's parents basement.

I've been trying ot figure this out myself. I imagine simply creating AIs in itself would not be illegal, but what they program it to do. And these aren't 15 year olds, they're mostly college grads, but still in a basement

3 - neat stuff. I have a cousin -in- law (is there such a thing?) that does this type of work. I really do not know alot about it but from what I do know we are getting closer and closer to helping more and more people walk/see/hear/ etc again.

I don't know anyone who is disabled like that but I would still like the idea of working in this field a lot.

4 - I can see that governments would want to do this type of thing for a super soldier but I can not see it being mainstream. It would instantly destroy sport as we know it. Look onto the new forms of doping that threaten to destroy the sport of cycling. I think you would find them interesting.
DNA alterations that cause the body to produce hormones and chemicals that are like taking steroids or O2 doping. Nanotechnology / certain bacteria can do similar things. I read an article in bicycling magazine that talked about 8-10 different emerging methods. Nasty stuff. I for one say forget about ever jumping over buildings / seeing through walls and just be happy with the amazing machine that we have already been given. It can do some really cool things all by itself.

I agree that it can do some cool stuff on it's own. But my obsessive curiosity, while probably short lived, is very entertained by these kinds of ideas. I probably wouldn't want to become some kind of super soldier like you described, but some of the ideas they have are very interesting.

 

[Blackguard_]

From immortality drugs to illegal construction of AIs by hacker groups,

Life extending drugs.....construction of AI being illegal....Do you live in the Dune universe?

1. An "immortality drug" (like a pill or cream that temporarily slows/stops the aging process in cells, I've seen a lot of interesting research on this, but with the amount of stupid people running around on the planet right now it might not be such a good idea to introduce it to the public)

Probably would be bad idea before we have starships and can colonize other planets and stars so land and resources are not a problem. The universe is infinite so everyone could have whatever land they desired given good enough starship technology right?

2. Construction of AI's (I've seen some amazingly complex AI's and advanced robot-looking things that can understand suprisingly complex orders in just about any form of english)

"Thou shall not make a machine in the likeness of a man's mind"

A good sentiment. What do we need AIs for anyway, excpet to fulfill nerd fantasys of Data and such?

3. Development of prosthetic limbs or even "attachments" that can be controlled directly by the nervous system?

I don't see why this would be a problem.

I do have a few ideas actually but I probably shouldn't get into them so as to stay on topic)

Like what, chaingun mounts, like those guys in the second episode of Wolfenstein 3D had?

4. Any other form of extropian/posthuman augmentation that you could think of (other ideas would be cool to hear)

How about brain implants, pills etc. that make you smarter? I see nothing morally wrong with it, although I probably wouldn't trust them, at least not for a long time after they are introduced.

 

[psychedelicist]

Life extending drugs.....construction of AI being illegal....Do you live in the Dune universe?

Lol. This stuff doesn't actually exist yet. But there have been efforts made with amazing results.

Probably would be bad idea before we have starships and can colonize other planets and stars so land and resources are not a problem. The universe is infinite so everyone could have whatever land they desired given good enough starship technology right?

Then I know what to recommend they work on next, I suppose

"Thou shall not make a machine in the likeness of a man's mind"

A good sentiment. What do we need AIs for anyway, excpet to fulfill nerd fantasys of Data and such?

Lessening the workload I suppose. They would also be helpful in deciding matters where emotional interference might be a problem.

Like what, chaingun mounts, like those guys in the second episode of Wolfenstein 3D had?

Interesting as that might be, I was thinking more along the lines of things to help the blind to see and that kind of thing.

How about brain implants, pills etc. that make you smarter? I see nothing morally wrong with it, although I probably wouldn't trust them, at least not for a long time after they are introduced.

Nothing morally wrong I guess. But I dunno if I trust many doctors to cut open my brain and start putting microchips and stuff in it...

 

[The Seeker]

But these people don't seem to be creating these things for profit, but for the benefit. If they were they'd probably be working in big corporations to create this, not on their own.

Yeah, but where are they going to get the resources (and, more importantly, the funding) to bring any of their big ideas to fruition? Its a sad fact of the society we live in, if you control the moolah, you control the world.

And actually, it was me watching Ghost in the Shell that introduced me to cyberpunk culture. At first I thought it was just a genre of books, but lo and behold, there are people working to make these kinds of things a reality. The GITS world doesn't seem any more messed up than our own, just in a much different way, anyways.

My point about Ghost in the Shell is that if you can interface with people's brains via computer you can also interfere with them. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with any government having that sort of power (then again, I'm not comfortable with governments having any sort of power, so its a bit of a funny one for me ).

 

[psychedelicist]

Yeah, but where are they going to get the resources (and, more importantly, the funding) to bring any of their big ideas to fruition? Its a sad fact of the society we live in, if you control the moolah, you control the world.

This is actually how me and my friend were introduced to these people. We were researching ways to exploit the capital market to pump money back into a non-authoritarion constantly-reconfiguring free-form network of human-scale projects that result in permanent autonomous zones people can migrate freely among. They just work so much more efficiently at these things just because they actually care about the benefits, not the profits, like big corporations do. We thought it might be a novel idea to start a project much like the ones I discussed in my OP, but apparently these things have been going on for a while.

At any rate, for projects like liberation biotech (immortality, consciousness expansion, extropian-posthuman augmentation etc) Looking at going international (offshore tax havens, moving operations outside of national boundaries or to jurisdictions where different components of the project are not repressed) would make sense. One gets all kinds of cyberpunk scenarios with underground immortality drug labs, illegal AI construction by hacker groups and that sort of thing. One may also start nonprofit corporations without any sort of credential other than filing with the appropriate government agency. Nolo Press has a kit for doing this. A more nebulous construct are "Trusts". The only thing required to establish some forms of trusts is a letter of agreement. They're quite flexible. Offshore trusts in tax havens are even more amusing. In terms of an underground biotech sort of scenario, one might look into what Clonaid appears to be getting away with. They have no corporate structure, It appears that the entire organization is composed of a bunch of offshore trusts set up ad-hoc as projects arise. (This doesnt address the weirdness of Clonaid and Raelianism, though, it's just an example of what can be done with impugnity.)


I've also been looking into a full frontal assault on money using the international foreign currency exchange markets. If the influx of novelty, complexification, technological growth, social change and other epigentic evolutionary processes are accellerating exponentially, one needs exponential resources to surf them (or at least exponential increases in efficiency and synergy of resources). The only thing that keeps pace with this in the money dimension is compound interest or percentage growth rates, which seem to be in the realm of business, intellectual property, investment and speculation lately.

Anyway, it's not a new idea to use nonstandard novel methods to automatically trade global capital markets. Apparently this is legal in the foreign exchange markets and regulation is unlikely or nearly impossible due to the intrinsically international nature of these transactions and the persistent existence of sovereign tax haven nation-states. (Sameer Parekh's involvement with HavenCo/SeaLand is interesting.)

Though this may not be what anyone had in mind.

My, even for me that was quite the tangental rant.

My point about Ghost in the Shell is that if you can interface with people's brains via computer you can also interfere with them. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with any government having that sort of power (then again, I'm not comfortable with governments having any sort of power, so its a bit of a funny one for me ).

I agree. While it could be useful it could also give the government (or just about anyone skilled enough for that matter) way too much control over you.

 

[Madcoil]

This is actually how me and my friend were introduced to these people. We were researching ways to exploit the capital market to pump money back into a non-authoritarion constantly-reconfiguring free-form network of human-scale projects that result in permanent autonomous zones people can migrate freely among.

In other words, its an out of the back of my van freak-show that will travel around the south charging 2 bits a gander?

 

[psychedelicist]

In other words, its an out of the back of my van freak-show that will travel around the south charging 2 bits a gander?

No. These are professionals working on these kinds of things. They take their work much more seriously than that, and they're not stupid enough to parade it around to everyone.