Discussion Extra-Biblical Revelation, Christ died for more than a faceless crowd?

[GoldenKingGaze]

I heard God say He died just for me, mistakenly told my teacher, and he rebutted me, leaving me thinking Jesus died for a faceless crowd, of which I Was just one. A preacher praying for me said "You're God's favourite son." I found this hard to believe. Later another preacher explained God is able to have many favourite sons...

On the same matter, a just read of a woman who committed suicide, but showed interest in Christ, Jesus came to her in Hell, and revealed to her that he understood her, and that in Gethsemane, he experienced each persons' life compassionately, before dying on the cross. In Him the fullness of the Godhead dwelt bodily.

This idea of Jesus knowing each of us intimately before and while dying for us, do you believe it? It is an extra-Biblical revelation. Not Sola Scriptura.

Can you accept them or do you reject them?

 

[Rescued One]

i don't understand anyone saying,"You're God's favorite son." That isn't biblical. Jesus knows His sheep and his sheep know Him is biblical.

People aren't randomly assigned to hell and then given a chance for salvation.

Are you, by chance, talking to Mormons?

 

[Aussie Pete]

I heard God say He died just for me, mistakenly told my teacher, and he rebutted me, leaving me thinking Jesus died for a faceless crowd, of which I Was just one. A preacher praying for me said "You're God's favourite son." I found this hard to believe. Later another preacher explained God is able to have many favourite sons...

On the same matter, a just read of a woman who committed suicide, but showed interest in Christ, Jesus came to her in Hell, and revealed to her that he understood her, and that in Gethsemane, he experienced each persons' life compassionately, before dying on the cross. In Him the fullness of the Godhead dwelt bodily.

This idea of Jesus knowing each of us intimately before and while dying for us, do you believe it? It is an extra-Biblical revelation. Not Sola Scriptura.

Can you accept them or do you reject them?

I believe that the Bible supports the idea that God knows the hearts of all people. I don't know that the Lord Jesus experienced each person's life. It does say that He bore the sins of the world. It says that He tasted death for every man. He bore all our sorrows (Isaiah 53:4)
1 Chronicles 28:9
“As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

As far as "favourite" son goes, I see it this way. Yes, God identifies me as an individual. He also identifies me in Christ. "For you died and your life is hidden in Christ with God". I like that. God looks at me and sees Jesus. That's a most wonderful truth. So sure, on that basis God has many favourite sons yet we are all one in Christ Jesus. And one day, we will all be like Jesus. That's the most wonderful truth of all.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

i don't understand anyone saying,"You're God's favorite son." That isn't biblical. Jesus knows His sheep and his sheep know Him is biblical.

People aren't randomly assigned to hell and then given a chance for salvation.

Are you, by chance, talking to Mormons?

There seems to be the idea, that God takes me, and you and others, personally. He is not finite like your father, who had maybe, one favourite child. Like your father was a torch, but God is the sun.

People I think are made to obtain life, and infants do if they fall ill and pass away. But as we get older we can make bad choices, like hedonism and mercinarism...

Talking to Spirit Filled Christians.

 

[Rescued One]

There seems to be the idea, that God takes me, and you and others, personally. He is not finite like your father, who had maybe, one favourite child. Like your father was a torch, but God is the sun.

People I think are made to obtain life, and infants do if they fall ill and pass away. But as we get older we can make bad choices, like hedonism and mercinarism...

Talking to Spirit Filled Christians.

I'm sorry but all of that sounds like mixture of false teachings. It's so screwed up it would certainly take hours to explain how wrong it is.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I mean to look at Christ as a personal saviour in His death and how He relates to us now.

 

[lismore]

This idea of Jesus knowing each of us intimately before and while dying for us, do you believe it? It is an extra-Biblical revelation. Not Sola Scriptura.

Can you accept them or do you reject them?

There are many good passages in the bible on the subject of the Atonement. I would suggest discussing these before getting into 'extra-Biblical revelation' on the subject. At least then there would be some foundation, some plumb-line to measure the other stuff against. Ephesians 1 would be a good starting point IMO.

But 'faceless crowd' and 'favourite Son', I would be skeptical of these claims.

God Bless

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I have read the Bible and reread. I read about atonement. I think Jesus knew each persons He was dying for myself.

And I did not at first accept I am God's favourite son, at first. Thinking it can't be that of all His son in the world, I am above the others. But it was explained that God has many favourite sons. And since He is not merely human, I can believe it.

So it it good to take it personally, Jesus died for you, He knew you.

And when born again, you are God's favourite son or daughter. It is personal.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

It is said truly, if only you needed Jesus death on the cross, He would have died just for you. Can you accept that that is His value on you and that He met your need, as if personally for you alone?

 

[TedT]

This idea of Jesus knowing each of us intimately before and while dying for us, do you believe it? It is an extra-Biblical revelation.

Maybe not so extra biblical...For those God foreknew he also predestined...
Romans 8:29 - For whom HE did foreknow, HE also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of HIS Son.

From this verse we can see that the predestination of the elect is based on the foreknowledge of GOD. Now everyone admits that in this verse, the word “fore” means before life. Therefore, they think that it also means before creation as if our earthly life was the same as our created spirit life. I wonder if this is a valid and reasonable link to make?

GOD obviously does not before life know everybody since not everyone will become like Jesus, as Rom 8:29 just said predestination means and as per Matthew 7:21 – 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ which tells us what knowing means, emphasising the idea that loving is knowing and knowing about has no love.

Luke 13:27
And he will answer, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers.' Jesus obviously knew about the demons and where they were for just as He knew about the miracle workers but this knowing contained no love as it is plain, He never knew them.

This means that foreknow must carry the idea of approval. As one commentator stated it, “Whom HE foreknew” is virtually equivalent to “whom HE foreloved”.

What is the reason for HIS particular "before life" love? If we cannot find any answer, perhaps we need a revelation from GOD to give us an infinitely loving answer to this problem?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Maybe not so extra biblical...For those God foreknew he also predestined...
Romans 8:29 - For whom HE did foreknow, HE also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of HIS Son.

From this verse we can see that the predestination of the elect is based on the foreknowledge of GOD. Now everyone admits that in this verse, the word “fore” means before life. Therefore, they think that it also means before creation as if our earthly life was the same as our created spirit life. I wonder if this is a valid and reasonable link to make?

GOD obviously does not before life know everybody since not everyone will become like Jesus, as Rom 8:29 just said predestination means and as per Matthew 7:21 – 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ which tells us what knowing means, emphasising the idea that loving is knowing and knowing about has no love.

Luke 13:27
And he will answer, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers.' Jesus obviously knew about the demons and where they were for just as He knew about the miracle workers but this knowing contained no love as it is plain, He never knew them.

This means that foreknow must carry the idea of approval. As one commentator stated it, “Whom HE foreknew” is virtually equivalent to “whom HE foreloved”.

What is the reason for HIS particular "before life" love? If we cannot find any answer, perhaps we need a revelation from GOD to give us an infinitely loving answer to this problem?

I can agree that God loves those which are His. And has a great love for just any one soul, to die for them, to give them an real opportunity at life. But not all when given the opportunity take life into practice by faith and prayer.

Not all believe in the power in Jesus' sacred blood. Scientism blocks some by their learning with ageing. Children are more open.

Because of the cross, even if foreknowing saw failure, those babes who die, have the cross power for mercy and overcoming, at a crucial and key moment of openness. Jesus gets them first and they are taken into the light forever.

Those God foreknows are the ones who He sees will respond to grace and take Him into their hearts. And then those who respond take another wave of believers in, and it goes on. But those God does not know as friends or servants, the power was available to save them, if their preacher had more faith and compassion, and did more fasting, or if he preached to them at a younger age. Even after they die, there is still a chance.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The story of Angie Fenimore's NDE gives the account of Jesus revealing to her that Jesus foreknew and experienced her's and everyone's whole life personally.

 

[TedT]

Those God foreknows are the ones who He sees will respond to grace and take Him into their hearts.

Yes, but...
how can we believe that they CHOSE to refuse to respond to HIM if we also believe that HE created us sinful and estranged from HIM in Adam and that our ability to respond to HIM is by HIS grace only, not by our decision?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Yes, but...
how can we believe that they CHOSE to refuse to respond to HIM if we also believe that HE created us sinful and estranged from HIM in Adam and that our ability to respond to HIM is by HIS grace only, not by our decision?

God did not create us sinful, but sin lives in us through our ancestry and by the connection to Satan in the Garden of Eden.

Adam was full of grace and yet sinned. He was free.

We are free. We have to be given faith in God to respond to Him. We can choose not to believe at first. Some in their Earthly life never hear of God. But they have guardian angels and Jesus died for them. God is the saviour of all. 1 Timothy 4:10 God loves the lost. We have faith and opportunity, we can make a decision. A Korean brother was called to preach in Japan, when there he could still not forgive them. But they applied Jesus' powerful blood on him, and he was able to move in forgiveness and went on. Could he have hardened his heart to the blood? Yes. But he was there to obey and softened his heart. You could also say Jesus' sacred blood softened his heart. Or Jesus' sacred blood hardened his heart.

 

[lismore]

The story of Angie Fenimore's NDE gives the account of Jesus revealing to her that Jesus foreknew and experienced her's and everyone's whole life personally.

Before her alleged experience is placed on the same level as scripture should it not be tested/ investigated? "Test everything: retain what is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21). A lot of these NDE's contradict each other, even themselves. God Bless

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

There are many good passages in the bible on the subject of the Atonement. I would suggest discussing these before getting into 'extra-Biblical revelation' on the subject. At least then there would be some foundation, some plumb-line to measure the other stuff against. Ephesians 1 would be a good starting point IMO.

But 'faceless crowd' and 'favourite Son', I would be skeptical of these claims.

God Bless

Faceless crowd is the wrong idea, Jesus seeing in His mind's eye a trillion people like a sea, no. He knows each one. But did He know each one at the time?

How do you determine where you sit as a son in God's favour?

 

[TedT]

God did not create us sinful, but sin lives in us through our ancestry and by the connection to Satan in the Garden of Eden.

Who created the system of our having sin live in us through our ancestry and not through our choice??? GOD did.

How can we believe the opposites that GOD created the system of us having sin in us due to our ancestry without our choice and yet GOD did not create us as sinful? The mental gymnastics are horrendous...unless we blind ourselves with doublethink.

A loving righteous Person cannot create sin or sinners by any method! GOD is light in whom is no darkness at all!

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

God created Adam sinless and holy, but now creates us with the inherited sinful nature, which Paul describes as slavery.

It is like inheriting AIDS from a parent.

We inherit sinful blood and are given sacred blood when we accept the offer and ask and receive.

Looking at Moses and Pharaoh, Moses had a birth right, and all Hebrews did. God still loved and wanted the salvation of the Egyptians. Moses wrote about them favourably. Pharaoh who may have been Amenhotep the 2nd, knew the Hebrews beliefs, but did not accept them. God knew he would refuse grace, and planned on using it, although He wanted repentance from him and all Egypt. When Moses asked for freedom to Pharaoh, he declined grace. He hardened his heart and God then is said to have hardened his heart. God is grace.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Who created the system of our having sin live in us through our ancestry and not through our choice??? GOD did.

How can we believe the opposites that GOD created the system of us having sin in us due to our ancestry without our choice and yet GOD did not create us as sinful? The mental gymnastics are horrendous...unless we blind ourselves with doublethink.

A loving righteous Person cannot create sin or sinners by any method! GOD is light in whom is no darkness at all!

Are you saying God causes sin by predestiny or God does not have a say in it because He leaves things up to us?

 

[TedT]

God created Adam sinless and holy, but now creates us with the inherited sinful nature, which Paul describes as slavery.

Light cannot create darkness.
A good tree cannot put forth rotten fruit.
A stream of life giving water cannot put forth salt or brackish water.
GOODNESS cannot bring forth evil.
Inherited sin or sin by the will of GOD is anathema.