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It's that kind of thinking that is dangerous. Don't you believe that God wiped out most of the creatures on earth with a great flood? Have you not saw earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis destory 1000s or even millions of lives? We could get hit at any time and if we last long enough we will be hit. It would be foolish to relax and think it will not happen.I mean think about it, if you created a planet, would you let debris destroy it? No. People can relax.
My wife and I were on Guam in 1976 when Supertyphoon Pamela hit.It's that kind of thinking that is dangerous. Don't you believe that God wiped out most of the creatures on earth with a great flood? Have you not saw earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis destory 1000s or even millions of lives? We could get hit at any time and if we last long enough we will be hit. It would be foolish to relax and think it will not happen.
There is biblical evidence. Since science is stuck in the here and now like a fly on a sticky tape, you will have to take that. Or leave it and dwell in the unknown.
Yes. They don't grow in a week.
Well, there is no need, actually. Because nothing says they were as present. Now does it!? So why would I doubt a flood, and fast growth, and different laws, etc????
There are no C14 dates, not past the time where the amount and ratio was no longer a creature of this state. And science can't say how long that is. All it has done is by science of the here and now, is to assume the there and then was the same. That is meaningless, without solid evidence. And of course evidence is not what if the same state existed calculations, scenarios, and stories.
If there was no decay, who needs a curve? What we had was extra material, ( or less) than would be expected IF it all transpired and was formed, and caused in, and by a same state past!
Can you tell me what difference we would expect in 'skeletons'? Would Peleg's skeleton look different than Noah's?
So what, it can be explained using the tooth fairy, but she is not evidenced either, any more than a same state past. It is no less sensical to have a fairy wave her wand, and create a little speck, from which all the known universe sailed out of, than to accept the insane conclusions of science.
Well, If this refers to the carbon in the trees, all we do is look at trees as no more than 4500 years old. test the rest. How much of a clue do you need? I am spoon feeding you here.
Embedded age is interesting. But since it isn't the topic, I see no need to agrue about it, unless the one that believed it wanted to raise it.
I never leaned to that idea myself at all, because of things like fossils in the rocks. They had to get there somehow.
No, you sure do not have anything remotely similar to that nature at all.
Not unless you could prove a SSP. Otherwise no tree is older than 4500 years, regardless or rings, which then cease to relate to years at all!
Bulletproof. And the C14 after that period merely reflectts the different levels present at the time, and how the subsequent decay, etc affected it.
Although no change is really required, I do not believe you. Really I don't. I challenge you here to present us a picture of rings beyond the 4500 level???!!!!! I have asked others and, strangely, they come up empty. I would like to see you do that.
False. The patterns that woulld exist after the state change period woulld affect all the trees in the area. But I really do not believe you will be able to provide us any samples. I would be interested to look at that.
You still need to know when the plug was pulled, and the empty rate at the unobserved stages! Any way you shake it, you come up short.
You miss the point, no other pool was observed either for the time. Get out of that one.
No, The evidence of a hose was not detectable, all that was seen was the present hose.
The silly observer never even thought to check for evidence, but assumed that everything was explainable by present things.
No, the universe is the pool, and the hose is the fabric and laws that now operate.
Because it was well thunk out. Designed, to carefully, with all things in consideration, result in the temporal state prison man exists in.
No accident. No chaos, and fluke fest of fantastic coinceneces involved at all. No little invisible hot soup specks spitting oout the universe, or anything else the PO wisdom of man imagined.
No, that is same state religion, and mentally assigning imaginary dates, based on the present state happenings, and laws, and ways.
Why would you not show a pic of rings beyond 4500 level!!!?? How would we know, I have never seen any. You? Tell the truth. Last time I asked a super educated hot debater, he informed me, if I recall, that the rings were missing! But that is a long story. Let's see you wow us.
Slow down. Show us some first, before just claiming stuff.--Lurkers, think we'll get a pic?
No decay in the former state that I am aware of. So, no decay rates.
Do you really need to askHonestly lurkers, if you care to post, who actually has a better argument?
It's that kind of thinking that is dangerous. Don't you believe that God wiped out most of the creatures on earth with a great flood? Have you not saw earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis destory 1000s or even millions of lives? We could get hit at any time and if we last long enough we will be hit. It would be foolish to relax and think it will not happen.
?? If that was related to the flood, I would expect that. No biggie.It makes you wonder why God put the KT boundary all over the world doesn't it?
So in other words we should not be concerned with looking for a way to possibily prevent an impact that could kill millions of people? By that same type of logic we don't really need doctors either after all we will not get sick unless God allows it and if we die we have a place to go right. No need for the police to lock up murderers they will not kill anyone unless God allows it. It's all win win and we save a lot of money in the process right?No, trusting God is the only way to go. It worked for Noah. If we are under His protection, nothing will happen to us unless He allows it. And if it is time to go, we have a wonderful place prepared. Win, win.
He didn't. There was no science back then. It is a creature of the recent past, and jumped into the fray wrong from the getgo.So why would God change scientific evidence to contradict biblical evidence? Are you saying Romans 1:20 is wrong?
Have you seen an olive tree grow from a seed to produce fruit in that time?I've witnessed trees putting out leaves in a week.
Nothing says it was the same. God indicates major differences. Noo reason from science to doubt.So you are saying you have no evidence for a drastically faster deposition rate of ice core sediment? Nothing specifically says the past was drastically different either, now does it?
But why does the "present state" C14 age match the dendrochronological age?
We were talking radioactive decay. Can you prove 1% there was any at all? No. You can't. All we know is that there is decay now, and has been fro the recent past. We also know that the materials in some rocks, and etc, are now produced by decay. The assumption is that all materials of that sort were produced by decay, and at the present decay rate we can measure. But if the materials were already here before the decay state started, that assumption is null and oh, so void.Can you 100% prove there was no decay? If there was no decay, what happened to all of the excrement all those people and animals left behind? How did people digest food? Digestion is a form of decay...
Do you think a 600 year old man's skeleton would look different compared to a 100 year old man?
Coming from the man who cannot provide any evidence for his different state past either. Again, can you provide any phenomena that cannot be explained using "present state" science?
Carbon dating cannot support anything beyond where this state can be proven to exist. It becomes ratios, and levels. Not time units. The fast tree growth, pre split, means that no amount of rings matter in the least, whether they overlap, underlap, or do a lap dance with a willow.You would have to find evidence against why we have 12,000 years worth of overlapping rings and why it is also supported by C14 testing.
You bet. The evidence is that a SSP has no evidence.Evidence?
All evidence beyond the baby grasp of present scienvce supports it. Bible, history, etc.If it is "bulletproof" then surely you can provide some evidence to back up your claims.
Too late. Science cannot wait till others provide non science based evidence for claims, to support it's very foundation. This is news?I have already challenged you to provide evidence in support of your claims. So far you have failed to do so. I will provide more evidence as soon as you provide some.
You were asked to show us the pre 4500 ring level pics, because you made claims about them. Lurkers, behold, the lack of simple evidence for so called science claims.!!!!!Then scientists should have spotted such a glaring different in tree rings and reported it in their findings. Can you provide examples to bolster your scenario? Can you provide some examples of trees that were obviously affected by the physical state change?
Same reason I am not formulating tooth fairy age. Carbon decay only applies in the present state.If we can get the rate at which the water is being emptied we have a more accurate observation than just making wild guesses. Perhaps you can create a new formula for measuring C14 age, since you obviously know so much about it. Why aren't you?
So in other words YOU have ZERO evidence in support of your scenario. If evidence of another hose wasn't detectable, why assume there was another? So the person who filled the pool was purposely deceiving the people measuring it? Are you saying God is a deceiver?
Before radiation was, the levels alreasy were doing their thing not knowing or caring about how they one day would be involved in a new job in the decay process.We do check for phenomena that can alter radioisotope levels.
Only in the box of this state, and laws and universe fabric. You never considered that a different universe was here, and that the meterials also were already here. You assumed that they all got here as they are now produced. I kid you not.C14 doesn't work for aquatic organisms, volcanic activity/metamorphism can reset radioisotope clocks, etc. We have checked for evidence of change.
So God was purposely trying to trick us. Are you saying Romans 1:20 is wrong?
Since what you want the opposite to can't be supported in the first place, no need exists to support the opposite of it! Elementary.Can you provide any evidence supporting the opposite?
Tell you what, you wow me by supporting your pre 4500 tree ring claims, with a good photo of them, and I might consider it. If you can't do it here, why pretend you can somewhere else!?I have yet to see you wow me. If this is all you have no wonder you refuse to do a formal debate...
Where did all the poop go? Maybe that was the secondary purpose of the flood...
So in other words we should not be concerned with looking for a way to possibly prevent an impact that could kill millions of people?No, I wouldn't worry about it. Wasting billions on such fears most likely would end up as some crude effort to fight God when He comes. Money wasted indeed!
Nonsense. Medicine is like knowledge and science. The good stuff is great. But there is also the bad stuff that comes with the package deal. For example, abortions, and sex change operations.By that same type of logic we don't really need doctors either after all we will not get sick unless God allows it and if we die we have a place to go right.
I would tend to almost agree, they should be killed. Releasing child molesters, and mad dog killers on the innocent public, is a crime. Those guilty of it are accomplices to the crimes, I would think.No need for the police to lock up murderers they will not kill anyone unless God allows it. It's all win win and we save a lot of money in the process right?
So in other words we should not be concerned with looking for a way to possibly prevent an impact that could kill millions of people?Do you see the inconsistancy in your views here? We should not try to protect people from something that could kill every person on the planet but we should protect them from something that might hurt or kill a few. hmm.No, I wouldn't worry about it. Wasting billions on such fears most likely would end up as some crude effort to fight God when He comes. Money wasted indeed!
Nonsense. Medicine is like knowledge and science. The good stuff is great. But there is also the bad stuff that comes with the package deal. For example, abortions, and sex change operations.
I would tend to almost agree, they should be killed. Releasing child molesters, and mad dog killers on the innocent public, is a crime. Those guilty of it are accomplices to the crimes, I would think.
No, trusting God is the only way to go. It worked for Noah. If we are under His protection, nothing will happen to us unless He allows it. And if it is time to go, we have a wonderful place prepared. Win, win.
Not at all. No impact could occur that was not known by Him. Impacts will occur, and there will be nothing man can do to stop it, because they will be judgments of God. In case it is news, no one is getting away with what is going on now. He is simply allowing the cup to fill up, before the judgments start.So in other words we should not be concerned with looking for a way to possibly prevent an impact that could kill millions of people? Do you see the inconsistancy in your views here? We should not try to protect people from something that could kill every person on the planet but we should protect them from something that might hurt or kill a few. hmm.
By killing just a few, I assume you refer to the releasing of molesters and killers among the population? Or abortions? If so, that is something man could do something about. In fact is supposed to do something about. Protecting His planet comes under His responsibilities!
How else, but by the word He sent to man, would we know how He works? Or that He cares for us, and watches over us? How would we know there is nothing to fear in space objects destroying earth? How would we know even what God it was? How would we know that man fell, and was promised a savior from the very start? How would we know the animal sacrifices of the Jews of old all pointed to that messiah? How would we know He already came, and that we can be saved? How would we know that He prepared a wonderful place for us when we die?I have no quarrel with that, but it would seem that you don't put your trust in God, you put your trust in a convoluted and irrational interpretation of a collection of books written by men bent on disparate aims.
If you would throw your book away, and trust only God I might have some respect for you.
How else, but by the word He sent to man, would we know how He works?
Or that He cares for us, and watches over us?
How would we know there is nothing to fear in space objects destroying earth?
How would we know even what God it was?
How would we know that man fell, and was promised a savior from the very start?
How would we know the animal sacrifices of the Jews of old all pointed to that messiah?
How would we know He already came, and that we can be saved?
How would we know that He prepared a wonderful place for us when we die?
How much respect can one really have for men that worship some unknown god?
Again with the inconsistant ideas. It is mans responsibility to protect the planet but it is not his responsibility is what you seem to be saying. We should protect it from minor threats but not major ones.Not at all. No impact could occur that was not known by Him. Impacts will occur, and there will be nothing man can do to stop it, because they will be judgments of God. In case it is news, no one is getting away with what is going on now. He is simply allowing the cup to fill up, before the judgments start.
By killing just a few, I assume you refer to the releasing of molesters and killers among the population? Or abortions? If so, that is something man could do something about. In fact is supposed to do something about. Protecting His planet comes under His responsibilities!
I have no doubt that we could prevent an impact up to a certian scale. I also have no doubt that the scale would increase with research and time. It is in our power to do so.
No, trusting God is the only way to go. It worked for Noah. If we are under His protection, nothing will happen to us unless He allows it. And if it is time to go, we have a wonderful place prepared. Win, win.
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