• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Exploring the Relationship Between Adam's Initial Immortality and the Age of the Earth

davetaff

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2024
408
69
82
South Wales
✟57,907.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi
When Noah stepped of the ark it was a new beginning there was no Adam he had died so God began again and man in the image of God would be realised in Christ at his second advent the word man should be understood as mankind it is the body of Christ that he presents to the Father at his second comming a whole multitude of believers which is his body.

Love and Peace
Dave
 
Upvote 0

Job 33:6

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2017
9,364
3,183
Hartford, Connecticut
✟355,203.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Hi
When Noah stepped of the ark it was a new beginning there was no Adam he had died so God began again and man in the image of God would be realised in Christ at his second advent the word man should be understood as mankind it is the body of Christ that he presents to the Father at his second comming a whole multitude of believers which is his body.

Love and Peace
Dave
Noah was the second Adam of course. Delivered through the waters much like Moses. Genesis chapter 1 paralleled chapter 9 as well, and several motifs of the flood narrative follow those of the creation story.
 
Upvote 0

davetaff

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2024
408
69
82
South Wales
✟57,907.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Noah was the second Adam of course. Delivered through the waters much like Moses. Genesis chapter 1 paralleled chapter 9 as well, and several motifs of the flood narrative follow those of the creation story.
Hi Job thank you for your reply but you will have to give me scripture that says Noah is a second Adam.
There are only two Adam recorded in the bible the one recorded before the flood and the one after which is Jesus Christ at his second advent man in the image of God is Christ the head and the multitude of believers which make up his body a single human man is not in the image of God Christ and his body of believers is mankind in the image of God

Love and Peace
Dave
 
Upvote 0

Job 33:6

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2017
9,364
3,183
Hartford, Connecticut
✟355,203.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Hi Job thank you for your reply but you will have to give me scripture that says Noah is a second Adam.
There are only two Adam recorded in the bible the one recorded before the flood and the one after which is Jesus Christ at his second advent man in the image of God is Christ the head and the multitude of believers which make up his body a single human man is not in the image of God Christ and his body of believers is mankind in the image of God

Love and Peace
Dave
This video is helpful on the topic, it gives a list of parallels early in the video (54 seconds in), then continues on to Genesis 9.

You can find a lot of commentaries noting this as well. Such as the Genesis commentary by Claus Westermann.

Genesis 9:6 NET
[6] “Whoever sheds human blood, by other humans must his blood be shed; for in God’s image God has made humankind.”

I think it's also worth pointing out that in Genesis 9:6, God is not saying that only Adam was made In his image. Rather it was all of mankind. @Semper-Fi

Genesis 9:6 ESV
[6] “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.

As opposed to:
Genesis 9:6 Made-up Translation
6. Whoever sheds the blood of Adam, by Adam shall his blood be shed, for God made Adam in his own image.

When we read Genesis 1:26-28, we should understand that Adam, the individual man, is never actually mentioned in chapter 1. Rather when God creates "man", it's actually talking about mankind, or all of humanity that is created in the image of God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
2,004
861
Pacific north west
✟565,253.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My definition, which aligns with 99% of Biblical scholarship today, is perfectly fine.

Thanks.
I believe 100% your figure is wrong.
And you're welcome to cope all day on the topic. But the Bible says what it says.
No bother, it gives me something new to study. Some people
do not know how to rightly divide Gods Word of Truth.
There is nothing scientific about the sky being a solid dome
Many scientific principles are mentioned in the bible pertaining to Gods creation,
but closed minds do not want to see or hear what it says.

The wonders of water

There is nothing scientific about...windows of the sky opening and closing to let water through during the flood.
Basically, that is correct, there is no physical windows in the air.

אֲרֻבָּה serves as a vivid theological hinge between heaven and earth.
Whether unleashing deluge, provision, judgment, or blessing, the “window”
underscores that every flow—water, grain, light, or grace—originates in
God’s sovereign storehouse and moves at His command.

Lexical Summary
arubbah: Window, lattice, sluice

Genesis 7:11, 8:2
NAS: the floodgates of the sky
INT: the floodgates of the sky

Never heard someone say: the floodgates of the sky opened up when it poured heavy rain.

H699 could mean a sluice (with openings for water)

Historical and Cultural Background

"Archaeology reveals small lattice or shuttered windows high on
mud-brick houses, designed to admit air while limiting heat, rain,
and thieves. City gates and fortress towers also had narrow slits
for watching or shooting arrows.

These practical features offered ready metaphors for overflowing
water, cascading grain, or descending birds. In agrarian Israel,
a window in a granary roof allowed grain to be poured in; such
imagery informs Malachi’s promise that heaven itself will act like
an overflowing barn."

The Bible says GOD controls the weather.
Sometimes He uses weather -for blessings

Deuteronomy 11:14
14That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season,
the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in
thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

-for punishment

7And also I have withholden the rain from you, when there
wereyet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain
upon onecity, and caused it not to rain upon another city:
one piece was rained upon, and the piece whereupon it
rained not withered.

-for the day of battle and war

22Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou
seen the treasures of the hail, Which I have reserved against the
time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not
at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirl-
wind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

God shows Himself as the One ultimately in control of the
weather. And He uses it to communicate with mankind.

"Also with moisture He saturates the thick clouds; He scatters
His bright clouds. And they swirl about, being turned by His guidance,
That they may do whatever He commands them On the face
of the whole earth. He causes it to come, Whether for correction,
Or for His land, Or for mercy” (verses 10-13; New King James Version)

“By the breath of God ice is given,” Job 37 reads,“And the broad waters are frozen.

The Bible records curses in Leviticus 26

“And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven
as iron, and your earth as brass
: And your strength shall be spent in vain:
for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of
the land yield their fruits”

A time when the sky will hold as much moisture as
a sheet of iron, and the soil, as a plate of brass.
That means drought and famine (Joel 1:10-16; Amos 4:7).

In 2 Chronicles 7:13-14, God says: “If I shut up heaven that there be no rain,
or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among
my people; If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves,
and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear
from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”

Malachi 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in
mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts,
if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing,
that there shall not be room enough to receive it .

Genesis 49:25
Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; And by the Almighty,
who shall bless thee With blessings of heaven above, Blessings of the
deep that lieth under, Blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

I believe every word in the bible, Gods Oracles. The bible
says God controls the weather, do you believe that ?

Now if you do not believe above, God also recorded in the bible real
scientific principles mentioned long before mankind discovered them.

It wasn’t until 1580 that a full scientific explanation of the water cycle
was delivered by Bernard Palissy—about 2,500 years after King Solomon
had described it in detail. Cope with it, the Bible says what it says.

THE HYDROLOGIC CYCLE

"A correct scientific understanding of the hydrologic cycle was a long time coming, but
a divine explanation of this most critical life support system was provided to us from
the beginning. Over 2000 years of scientific debate, observation, and measurement
have now confirmed what God revealed".
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

johansen

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2023
603
146
36
silverdale
✟51,908.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Basically, that is correct, there is no physical windows in the air.
this is what's beautiful about the division between those who can interpret a passage spiritually with the help of God opening their eyes, and the rest..

read chapter 60 for example.

the spiritually dead and confused will mock it as scientifically backwards, but anyone can read it in at worst, a neutral light, and see that this is a spiritual vision or understanding that came to a person who would be at odds with their present day understanding:

the whole point of the passage is the entire water cycle, thunder, rain, frost, snow, etc operates by rules. not chaotic greek gods.

its a shame we have but fragments of the text, as it would be interesting to know what was really spoken about why there is a delay sometiems but not another time between the lightning and the thunder

" For the thunder has places of rest (which) are assigned (to it) while it is waiting for its peal; and the thunder and lightning are inseparable, and although not one and undivided, they both go together 15 through the spirit and separate not. For when the lightning lightens, the thunder utters its voice, and the spirit enforces a pause during the peal, and divides equally between them; for the treasury of their peals is like the sand, and each one of them as it peals is held in with a bridle, and turned back by the power of the spirit, and pushed forward according to the many quarters of the earth."

--i would imagine they would be wondering why two people some distance apart would have different delays between the light and sound.
 
Upvote 0

Job 33:6

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2017
9,364
3,183
Hartford, Connecticut
✟355,203.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
"These practical features offered ready metaphors for overflowing
water, cascading grain, or descending birds."


I would say, the point here is that literalists cherry pick and pick and choose when they want to take passages literally, and when they do not. Rather than grounding their interpretation in the historical context, that is the ancient near east and ancient isrealite cosmology.

Everything is literal, but as soon as we start talking about passages related to a solid sky dome, all of a sudden the text becomes metaphorical and everyone wants to treat it like poetry.
 
Upvote 0

FaithT

Well-Known Member
Dec 1, 2019
4,277
1,952
64
St. Louis
✟439,997.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"These practical features offered ready metaphors for overflowing
water, cascading grain, or descending birds."


I would say, the point here is that literalists cherry pick and pick and choose when they want to take passages literally, and when they do not. Rather than grounding their interpretation in the historical context, that is the ancient near east and ancient isrealite cosmology.

Everything is literal, but as soon as we start talking about passages related to a solid sky dome, all of a sudden the text becomes metaphorical and everyone wants to treat it like poetry.
Truth
 
  • Like
Reactions: Job 33:6
Upvote 0

BeyondET

Earth Treasures
Site Supporter
Jul 17, 2018
3,282
675
Virginia
✟218,122.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
THE HYDROLOGIC CYCLE


"A correct scientific understanding of the hydrologic cycle was a long time coming, but
a divine explanation of this most critical life support system was provided to us from
the beginning. Over 2000 years of scientific debate, observation, and measurement
have now confirmed what God revealed".
There's one more part of the cycle, the transition zone deep within the earth.
 
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
2,004
861
Pacific north west
✟565,253.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"These practical features offered ready metaphors for overflowing
water, cascading grain, or descending birds."


I would say, the point here is that literalists cherry pick and pick and choose when they want to take passages literally, and when they do not.
If you have problems with this view, take it up with the
ones who wrote it, here is the link again if you missed it.

I would say some people do not rightly divide Gods Word correctly.

Like you claiming God fought a mystical chaos dragon at creation
to create order. A multi-headed fire breathing, armor plated.. myth.
God made it so he can play with like a boat. In the end God defeats
chaos sea dragon and is preserving him to be served up as delicacy
for the righteous ones at Jesus's future reign.

Titus 1:2 God, that cannot lie.
Rather than grounding their interpretation in the historical context, that is the ancient near east and ancient isrealite cosmology.

see Historical and Cultural Background in above link provided.

"Thy word is true from the beginning Psalm 119:160,
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Proverbs 30:5, 2 Samuel 7:28, John 8:32, John 17:17.

Everything is literal, but as soon as we start talking about passages related to a solid sky dome, all of a sudden the text becomes metaphorical and everyone wants to treat it like poetry.
You are not paying attention again.

I take the description of God separating the waters literal not metaphorical.
Water on the earth, separated from the water in the atmosphere,
and separated from the water in space.

It is your interpretations of the bible that is in question here.
The bible does not say the earth is flat with a solid sky dome over it.
-

I see you did not answer my question.
Do you believe God controls the weather? However, and
whenever he wants according to scriptures given?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
2,004
861
Pacific north west
✟565,253.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
read chapter 60 for example.
There is many conflicks between the Book of Enoch, and the bible.
A big one is in chapter 40 of the Book of Enoch that states..

"..and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of
those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’"

The Book of Enoch attests, Phanuel is the angel of repentance
unto hope of those who have inherited eternal life....?

1st Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between
God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Repentance is strictly between
a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed
His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19)

There is no Biblical record of a "Book of Enoch"
People 450-Feet Tall?

The main reason for Jewish rejection of the book is that it is inconsistent
with the teachings of the Torah. From the standpoint of Rabbinic Judaism,
the book is considered to be heretical.

Acts 7:38, Romans 3:2, Hebrews 5:12, 1 Peter 4:11
 
Upvote 0

johansen

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2023
603
146
36
silverdale
✟51,908.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
"..and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of
those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’"

The Book of Enoch attests, Phanuel is the angel of repentance
unto hope of those who have inherited eternal life....?
Personally i have no problem with that one.

Its an angel that provides conviction of sin and influences people to repent.. This is something that people not yet born again experience before they receive the Holy Spirit, before they begin to even pray to Jesus for salvation.

Christians like to presume everything is Jesus and or the Holy Spirit.

Anyhow, you are missing the point.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Job 33:6

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2017
9,364
3,183
Hartford, Connecticut
✟355,203.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
If you have problems with this view, take it up with the
ones who wrote it, here is the link again if you missed it.
I don't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is YECs who then turn and suggest that Genesis is literal history in light of its ancient Israelite cosmology and context.

In light of the metaphorical and figurative passages in Genesis, there are still people who insist that the text describes a literal history. Which doesn't make sense.


Like you claiming God fought a mystical chaos dragon at creation
to create order. A multi-headed fire breathing, armor plated.. myth.

In the Bible, God is described as battling a multi headed sea serpent, and in the end times as well. There is even an ancient tablet discovered from Isreal that depicts this as well.

Psalms 74:14-17 NRSV
[14] You crushed the heads of Leviathan; you gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness. [15] You cut openings for springs and torrents; you dried up ever-flowing streams. [16] Yours is the day, yours also the night; you established the luminaries and the sun. [17] You have fixed all the bounds of the earth; you made summer and winter.

By his power he stilled the Sea; by his understanding he struck down Rahab. By his wind the heavens were made fair; his hand pierced the fleeing serpent.
Job 26:12‭-‬13 NRSV

When you smote litanu the fleeing serpent, annihilated the twisting serpent, the dominant one who has 7 heads.
KTU 1.5 1-2 (Ugaritic ancient near east text)

surely I lifted up the dragon of the two flames. I destroyed the twisting serpent, the tyrant with the seven heads. KTU 1.3.:III:28-46

On that day the Lord with his cruel and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will kill the dragon that is in the sea.
Isaiah 27:1 NRSV

A video on leviathan:

The bible does not say the earth is flat with a solid sky dome over it.

Daniel 4:11 NRSV
[11] The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth.

Job 38:12-14 NIV
[12] “Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, [13] that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? [14] The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.


From a variety of translations:

Amos 9:6 NASB1995
[6] The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.

Job 22:14 ESV
[14] Thick clouds veil him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven.’

Job 22:14 LEB
[14] Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.’

Exodus 24:10 ESV
[10] and they saw the God of Israel. There was under his feet as it were a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.

Job 37:18 NIV
[18] can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?


Genesis 1:6 LEB
[6] And God said, “Let there be a vaulted dome in the midst of the waters, and let it cause a separation between the waters.”

Genesis 1:7 NIV
[7] So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.

Genesis 1:6-7 NABRE
[6] Then God said: Let there be a dome in the middle of the waters, to separate one body of water from the other. [7] God made the dome, and it separated the water below the dome from the water above the dome. And so it happened.
 
Last edited: