Exploring the Relationship Between Adam's Initial Immortality and the Age of the Earth

[Job 33:6]

Just out of interest are you proposing that the garden was perhaps not the beginning but like a state of human existence where perhaps humans after evolving with animals reached a point of consciousness that made then God aware like they had some spiritual awakening.

The Bible was written thousands of years ago. Or Genesis more specifically. The Biblical authors did not know of things like evolution. Nor did they have a concept of consciousness. I don't even think the brain itself is mentioned a single time in the old testament. The authors didn't know what it was or what it did.

Adam and Eve are described in priestly terms. That they are to work and keep the garden, much like temple priests work and keep the tabernacle. Temples in ancient times were decorated to parallel creation. And creation is described in a temple-like theme.

So, I think it makes the most sense to call them the first "elected" or chosen representatives of mankind. And "the beginning" is the beginning of God's reign. Not the beginning of material existence.

 

[stevevw]

The Bible was written thousands of years ago. Or Genesis more specifically. The Biblical authors did not know of things like evolution. Nor did they have a concept of consciousness. I don't even think the brain itself is mentioned a single time in the old testament. The authors didn't know what it was or what it did.

I realise this. What we see expressed, the level of religious sophistication is a marker as to what level of consciousness or God awareness was reached.

For example we can find simple burials by hunter and gatherer stone age people. Buried with their prised possessions like hunting spear. Then we see more complex belief of making simple tombs, statues, paintings and hyroglyphs.

There came a point where it went from no or little GOd consciousness to everything was about the gods even crops, rocks animals. Not like today. Even up until Enligtenment really the world was very God conscious whether that was towards Yahwah or the many other gods and spirits created because of the inner consciousness that God instilled in us about Him and His creation.

When people move away from God they make creation itself gods. They make themselves gods.

Adam and Eve are described in priestly terms. That they are to work and keep the garden, much like temple priests work and keep the tabernacle. Temples in ancient times were decorated to parallel creation. And creation is described in a temple-like theme.

Yes this makes sense as God is a God of order and worship. Its a good analogy. Thats why humans make so many temples and adorn them with beautiful ornamnets, colours, animal pictures, the sun, moon and heavens.

So, I think it makes the most sense to call them the first "elected" or chosen representatives of mankind. And "the beginning" is the beginning of God's reign. Not the beginning of material existence.

Yes that makes sense and that is why at the start and for a long time as I said humans were very God and gods or spirit conscious. Everything the seen was thought to be about the gods or spirits. There was no material worldview for a long time.

Indigenous people even today speak of their ancestors and the world they lived in as from the gods, the spirit world where even the land, rocks, rivers, special locations were holy and had spiritual connections going back 1,000s of years.

It makes a lot of sense.

Then Enlightenment happened and we had a massive paradigm shift and all that stuff was deemed as unreal and superstitution and it has not been taken seriously since. Though science is even turning to indigenous knowledge as it has insights into how nature works on a spiritual level where they understand and worlk with nature.

 

[truthuprootsevil]

Adam upon being created by GOD and was initially in a state of innocence and perfection in the Garden of Eden. He was created to live forever, which suggests that he was in a condition of immortality while in Eden.

However, when Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, both of them were punished with mortality when GOD tells Adam that he will return to the ground from which he was taken.

As a result, if we consider Adam's state of being in Eden as immortal, it is challenging to calculate how long he lived in the garden starting from the point when he was created to the time when he fell.

From scripture, Adam's genealogies provide a timeline that leads to the conclusion of a young Earth, typically around 6,000 years old. However, if one considers the possibility that Adam lived for a very long time in a perfect, immortal state before disobedience, this could imply a much longer timeline for humanity (and an older earth) before the onset of mortality and the experiences described later after the serpent deceives Eve.

Thoughts?

I agree, I believe Adam lived thousands of years if not a few hundred of thousands of years before he sinned.

I believe that Adam had many, many, many children before sin came into the world.

I believe from Genesis 3 at the fall of Adam is when timeline for a mortal life to begin, is what all of the Bible except the first two chapters is about. And I believe that was just over 6,000 years ago, 6,000 years from the fall of Man.

I believe God gave man the knowledge of science to a certain degree, and I believe that Genesis 1 and a few other places in the Bible go hand in hand with science, except with the evolution of man, whereas it is clear God formed man himself and placed him in the garden.

Who named the Land of Nod, and since there was a Land of nod why was it considered the Land of Nod unless occupied by people. Cain and Abel were the only two written son born.

Why did Cain go to the Land of Nod to know his wife, could it be he went to the Land of Nod and found a wife, since Cain and Abel were the only two born.

And who were the people that God warned not to kill Cain, if Cain and Abel were the only two born? It seems it was almost immediately after Cain slew Abel that God cursed him and Cain said I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth it shall come to pass that everyone that finds me will slay me. God said therefore whosoever shall slay Cain vengeance shall be taken upon Him sevenfold. Yet Cain and Abel are the only two born.

The city that Cain established was called after his son, Enoch. The land of not a totally different city than that which came establish.

And I believe that the Earth is as close to the age as the science of man has determined it to be and it has been a mistranslated Hebrew word usage, since the word can mean and be used in more than one way, as even many words are in today's language.

Not stepping on any teachings just stating what I believe.

 

[tharkun73]

Paul isn't talking about a pre fall world where T-Rex ate watermelons or anything like that.

Wait, wait, wait - T-Rex ate watermelons?!?

 

[Mystery Girl]

As a result, if we consider Adam's state of being in Eden as immortal, it is challenging to calculate how long he lived in the garden starting from the point when he was created to the time when he fell.

From scripture, Adam's genealogies provide a timeline that leads to the conclusion of a young Earth, typically around 6,000 years old. However, if one considers the possibility that Adam lived for a very long time in a perfect, immortal state before disobedience, this could imply a much longer timeline for humanity (and an older earth) before the onset of mortality and the experiences described later after the serpent deceives Eve.

Thoughts?

From scripture, Adam's genealogies provide a timeline that leads to the conclusion of a young Earth, typically around 6,000 years old. However, if one considers the possibility that Adam lived for a very long time in a perfect, immortal state before disobedience, this could imply a much longer timeline for humanity (and an older earth) before the onset of mortality and the experiences described later after the serpent deceives Eve.

Thoughts?

Hello Avaree,

If we look at the creation, we can see that in the day that God created the world, and Adam it took 6 days and then God rested.
However the world was created a mature world as Adam a mature man. So in those days he created an mature earth and a mature man.
So the age of the earth is immaterial as it was created old as Adam was.

God is the only true immortal and things were created by him. As Adam was a living soul because God breathed his own breath into him he could not die and God is in charge of all souls,

 

[BeyondET]

I agree, I believe Adam lived thousands of years if not a few hundred of thousands of years before he sinned.

I believe that Adam had many, many, many children before sin came into the world.

I believe from Genesis 3 at the fall of Adam is when timeline for a mortal life to begin, is what all of the Bible except the first two chapters is about. And I believe that was just over 6,000 years ago, 6,000 years from the fall of Man.

I believe God gave man the knowledge of science to a certain degree, and I believe that Genesis 1 and a few other places in the Bible go hand in hand with science, except with the evolution of man, whereas it is clear God formed man himself and placed him in the garden.

Who named the Land of Nod, and since there was a Land of nod why was it considered the Land of Nod unless occupied by people. Cain and Abel were the only two written son born.

Why did Cain go to the Land of Nod to know his wife, could it be he went to the Land of Nod and found a wife, since Cain and Abel were the only two born.

And who were the people that God warned not to kill Cain, if Cain and Abel were the only two born? It seems it was almost immediately after Cain slew Abel that God cursed him and Cain said I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth it shall come to pass that everyone that finds me will slay me. God said therefore whosoever shall slay Cain vengeance shall be taken upon Him sevenfold. Yet Cain and Abel are the only two born.

The city that Cain established was called after his son, Enoch. The land of not a totally different city than that which came establish.

And I believe that the Earth is as close to the age as the science of man has determined it to be and it has been a mistranslated Hebrew word usage, since the word can mean and be used in more than one way, as even many words are in today's language.

Not stepping on any teachings just stating what I believe.

And Eve didn't like what Lamech said, the tree looked like a revenge tool. She certainly didn't initially go to the tree for food.

Gen 3
5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.

 

[BeyondET]

except with the evolution of man, whereas it is clear God formed man himself and placed him in the garden.

Unless you look at all that constitutes dirt of the earth, which Adam was formed from all those individual particles.

 

[truthuprootsevil]

Unless you look at all that constitutes dirt of the earth, which Adam was formed from all those individual particles.

I can't see how.

Bible says that Adam is from the dust of the earth, which is the elements, the chemicals.

The Bible is also clear that God formed Adam, which is telling us Adam did not evolve from any other species.

God said let us make man in our image and our likeness.

He did not call the Earth to bring forth Adam as he did with plants and all other living creatures and animals.

And ""placed"" him in the garden in the East of Eden which God had prepared.

 

[truthuprootsevil]

And Eve didn't like what Lamech said, the tree looked like a revenge tool. She certainly didn't initially go to the tree for food.

Gen 3
5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.

Eve didn't like what Lemech said, is that another name for the serpent?

No she didn't eat from the tree, God commanded them not to.

But it seems her desire be like God overwhelmed her. Who knows what feats Adam and Eve saw God performed, and she wanted to be as him, sounds sort of familiar.

 

[David Lamb]

Eve didn't like what Lemech said, is that another name for the serpent?

No she didn't eat from the tree, God commanded them not to.

But it seems her desire be like God overwhelmed her. Who knows what feats Adam and Eve saw God performed, and she wanted to be as him, sounds sort of familiar.

Lamech was a 5Xgreat-grandson of Adam and Eve:

“And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son — Enoch. To Enoch was born Irad; and Irad begot Mehujael, and Mehujael begot Methushael, and Methushael begot Lamech.” (Ge 4:17-18 NKJV)

I don't know what was meant by, "Eve didn't like what Lemech said." I can't find any bible reference to Lamech speaking to Eve.

 

[Job 33:6]

I can't see how.

Bible says that Adam is from the dust of the earth, which is the elements, the chemicals.

The Bible is also clear that God formed Adam, which is telling us Adam did not evolve from any other species.

God said let us make man in our image and our likeness.

He did not call the Earth to bring forth Adam as he did with plants and all other living creatures and animals.

And ""placed"" him in the garden in the East of Eden which God had prepared.

All people are made of dust. Not just Adam.

Ecclesiastes 3:20 states: "All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return."

Ecclesiastes 12:7 states "And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it."

Not only are there other men formed from dust of the earth, but indeed, all of mankind is dust from the earth. And there are many passages about this in the old testament. That's why Adam is Adam, he represents us all. We are dust because he first was dust. We sin because he first sinned etc.

But this isn't about biology. It's about our nature as earthly mortal beings (as opposed to heavenly supernatural beings).

Job 10:9 "Remember that you have formed me like clay; and will you return me to the dust?"

Psalm 103:14 "For he knows how we are formed, he remembers that we are dust."

Genesis 18:27, Abraham says: "I am but dust and ashes."

Psalm 90:3: "You return man to dust, saying, 'Return, O sons of mortals'"

Isaiah 26:19: Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!" (dust is of the earth)

etc.

The Bible is not a science textbook.

 

[truthuprootsevil]

All people are made of dust. Not just Adam.

Ecclesiastes 3:20 states: "All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return."

Ecclesiastes 12:7 states "And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it."

Not only are there other men formed from dust of the earth, but indeed, all of mankind is dust from the earth. And there are many passages about this in the old testament. That's why Adam is Adam, he represents us all. We are dust because he first was dust. We sin because he first sinned etc.

But this isn't about biology. It's about our nature as earthly mortal beings (as opposed to heavenly supernatural beings).

Job 10:9 "Remember that you have formed me like clay; and will you return me to the dust?"

Psalm 103:14 "For he knows how we are formed, he remembers that we are dust."

Genesis 18:27, Abraham says: "I am but dust and ashes."

Psalm 90:3: "You return man to dust, saying, 'Return, O sons of mortals'"

Isaiah 26:19: Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!" (dust is of the earth)

etc.

The Bible is not a science textbook.

It would seem that anybody with a bit of common sense would know if Adam was made of dust which means chemicals and elements of the Earth all of his offspring would be too.

And know where did I say the Bible was a science textbook. Yet there is a lot of science in the Bible. Starting at the beginning in Genesis. The first thing is God said "let there be light" and according o the most popular accepted theory of science The Big bang singularity started off with a burst of cosmic microwave radiation light which lit up the entire space and remnants can be seen today with proper equipment. This light existed before the first visible light which came to be some 3 million years later. That's just one example.

 

[truthuprootsevil]

Lamech was a 5Xgreat-grandson of Adam and Eve:

“And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son — Enoch. To Enoch was born Irad; and Irad begot Mehujael, and Mehujael begot Methushael, and Methushael begot Lamech.” (Ge 4:17-18 NKJV)

I don't know what was meant by, "Eve didn't like what Lemech said." I can't find any bible reference to Lamech speaking to Eve.

Well the way the statement was worded it it seemed as if it were saying that Lamech is the serpent who tempted Eve.

That is why I asked the question. I am aware Lamech in Scripture is a son of Methuselah in the Book of Genesis.

Not sure why you gave reference to the descendants of Cain.

Thank you

 

[Job 33:6]

It would seem that anybody with a bit of common sense would know if Adam was made of dust which means chemicals and elements of the Earth all of his offspring would be too.

And it would also seem, as per common sense, that if I am made of dust and I have a mother, that if Adam is made of dust, it follows that he too had a mother. Or did you miss the entire point of my post?

Being made of dust is a matter of mortal identity. It has nothing to do with the question of our biological origins.

Also, remember, Adam and Eve are never even mentioned in Genesis chapter 1 when God creates humanity. It's an assumption that they were the only people around.

 

[truthuprootsevil]

And it would also seem, as per common sense, that if I am made of dust and I have a mother, that if Adam is made of dust, it follows that he too had a mother. Or did you miss the entire point of my post?

Being made of dust is a matter of mortal identity. It has nothing to do with the question of our biological origins.

Also, remember, Adam and Eve are never even mentioned in Genesis chapter 1 when God creates humanity. It's an assumption that they were the only people around.

Oh I see - yes I am entirely missed any point you were trying to make with the scriptures you listed.

Adam was called man before he was given a name. And God regularly refers to him as man, he is referred to as the first man, we/people are referred to as the children of man.

Eve is stated to be the mother of all the living.

Then the question is when did they receive their names, did God give them their names or were they given names by Moses when he wrote the Book of Genesis.

There was a minister, the late pastor Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel who taught God created more than one set of humans. I thought he was a good teacher on most things but I disagreed with him totally on that. I don't believe Adam had a mother either. I believe Adam is the Man created in Genesis 1:26 and I believe Eve is the mother of all living humans (and I should put humans in that to be technically correct.)

According to Genesis 3:22 the fruit of the tree of Life gave a form of immortality. And it is an "assumption" that they never ate from it, someone will say. They had permission to eat from it and every other tree except the tree of knowledge, so why wouldn't they.

 

[Job 33:6]

Oh I see - yes I am entirely missed any point you were trying to make with the scriptures you listed.

Adam was called man before he was given a name. And God regularly refers to him as man, he is referred to as the first man, we/people are referred to as the children of man.

And Jesus is the last Adam or the second man, but this isn't about biology. Was Jesus temporally the second man to exist? No. Was Jesus the last man to exist? No. Not biologically.

1 Corinthians 15:45-48 ESV
[45] Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. [46] But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. [47] The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. [48] As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.

Eve is stated to be the mother of all the living.

Mice are living, is Eve the mother of mice too?

Genesis 4:20-21 ESV
[20] Adah bore Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. [21] His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe.

And Jubal was the father of all those who play the pipe. I play the pipe, is Jubal my father too? No, that's not the point.

This isn't a biology textbook. It's not about human origins. It is about their immediate family. It's not about humanity as a whole. Indeed, as noted before, Adam and Eve are never even mentioned in chapter 1 with the creation of humanity.

Then the question is when did they receive their names, did God give them their names or were they given names by Moses when he wrote the Book of Genesis.

Their names are Hebrew words. Hebrew isn't a divine language. It was given to them by the Isrealites that spoke that language and wrote Genesis in that language.

According to Genesis 3:22 the fruit of the tree of Life gave a form of immortality. And it is an "assumption" that they never ate from it, someone will say. They had permission to eat from it and every other tree except the tree of knowledge, so why wouldn't they.

The existence of the tree of life is only further evidence of the inherent mortality of humanity, otherwise there would be no reason for it.

 

[BeyondET]

Eve didn't like what Lemech said, is that another name for the serpent?

No she didn't eat from the tree, God commanded them not to.

But it seems her desire be like God overwhelmed her. Who knows what feats Adam and Eve saw God performed, and she wanted to be as him, sounds sort of familiar.

Lamech was a descendant of Cain.

 

[BeyondET]

But it seems her desire be like God overwhelmed her. Who knows what feats Adam and Eve saw God performed, and she wanted to be as him, sounds sort of familiar.

After she ate from the tree, and there was no desire of humans to be like God. Only satan wanted to be like God.

 

[BeyondET]

I can't see how.

Bible says that Adam is from the dust of the earth, which is the elements, the chemicals.

The Bible is also clear that God formed Adam, which is telling us Adam did not evolve from any other species.

God said let us make man in our image and our likeness.

He did not call the Earth to bring forth Adam as he did with plants and all other living creatures and animals.

And ""placed"" him in the garden in the East of Eden which God had prepared.

Dirt is formed from all sorts of living things.

The Bible is clear it doesn't mention the process of which God formed man. Man was not formed out of a dirt devil, whipped up like a presto man.

 

[Yarddog]

Adam upon being created by GOD and was initially in a state of innocence and perfection in the Garden of Eden. He was created to live forever, which suggests that he was in a condition of immortality while in Eden.

However, when Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, both of them were punished with mortality when GOD tells Adam that he will return to the ground from which he was taken.

As a result, if we consider Adam's state of being in Eden as immortal, it is challenging to calculate how long he lived in the garden starting from the point when he was created to the time when he fell.

From scripture, Adam's genealogies provide a timeline that leads to the conclusion of a young Earth, typically around 6,000 years old. However, if one considers the possibility that Adam lived for a very long time in a perfect, immortal state before disobedience, this could imply a much longer timeline for humanity (and an older earth) before the onset of mortality and the experiences described later after the serpent deceives Eve.

Thoughts?

The Garden of Eden is an allegory referring to God's rest. The Garden represents the state of righteousness "God's rest". Those in righteousness are created naked, meaning all open for God to see. Adam knew nothing about his sin until he ate from the Tree of Knowledge or the "Mosaic law".

Adam and Eve represent God's children or the Hebrew people. Through Abraham the Hebrew received righteousness through faith. The Hebrews lost this when they placed themselves under the Law, in the wilderness.

The sin of Eden is attempting to be responsible for one's own salvation by obedience to the law, instead of faith in the blood of Jesus.

Jesus Christ is the Tree of Life the God's children may eat of and live forever.