Explain how Jesus was in the tomb 3 days & 3 nights.

[Theo102]

I numerically posited the count of days to you in multiple posts of mine. Reiterating, once again, Day #1 was Thurs night, Friday morning; Day #2 was Friday evening, Saturday morning; and Day #3 was Saturday evening to Sunday morning when Christ arose. So how does your accounting come up with only 1 full day and two nights? I fail to see your point here sir.

In your timeline the sabbath of passover is followed by the weekly sabbath. In my timeline the two sabbaths are on the same day. For your timeline, Saturday, (starting on Friday at sundown) is the weekly sabbath, and likewise Sunday was when the empty tomb was discovered. Friday would have been the first sabbath and Thursday (starting at Wednesday sundown) would have been the day of the crucifixion. The problem is that you are counting Thursday night as Day #1 when the first day was Thursday afternoon, i.e. before sunset. You're not counting the day on which the crucifixion happened, but Luke was.

And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
Luke 24:20-21

In your timeline Thursday is the first day, which makes Sunday the fourth day, which contradicts Luke.

 

[John 1720]

In your timeline the sabbath of passover is followed by the weekly sabbath. In my timeline the two sabbaths are on the same day. For your timeline, Saturday, (starting on Friday at sundown) is the weekly sabbath, and likewise Sunday was when the empty tomb was discovered. Friday would have been the first sabbath and Thursday (starting at Wednesday sundown) would have been the day of the crucifixion. The problem is that you are counting Thursday night as Day #1 when the first day was Thursday afternoon, i.e. before sunset. You're not counting the day on which the crucifixion happened, but Luke was.

Hi Theo,
Point of reference before we spin ourselves endlessly on the topic. Jesus' prophecy specifically stated the Son of man would spend three days in the heart of the earth. Most commentators reference the Septuagint and "heart of the earth" and "belly of the great fish" were synonymous.

• Matthew 12:40 “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So this implies Jesus is speaking of His entombment and this is the accounting I used. However, if you believe it infers His death at about the 9th hour then that would be add about 4 hours, which was all that was left in the day. That's consequently not much. If one is speaking in conversation and speaking on what happened 3 days ago. And this is why I already stated that the dialog in Luke was speaking about events that had occurred pretty much 72 hours earlier.

• i.e Remember Wednesday 3 PM was a mere 4 hours from Thursday and so their conversation, recorded in Luke was probably at about 3 PM Sunday, or exactly 72 hours or 3 days earlier. Would you have stated that the event happened 4 days ago? Probably not, and neither should we put those contorted linguistics on them, especially since they were speaking of time in the context of how long it had been since those events had transpired. That is the clear meaning.

So it had also been, as I stated, the 3rd day since Jesus was laid to rest in the grave. Therefore I think this is quite an inconsequential issue,even if one takes the heart of the earth comment to mean death instead of entombment. However, I think the most emphatic expression of "the heart of the earth" is His real and total entombment.

Beyond not being able to account for 3 days and 3 nights in any way according to you, let's explore another problem with a Friday crucifixion and surmising that Nissan 14 occurred on Friday that year as you claim.

• John 11:54-55 Therefore Jesus no longer walked openly among the Jews, but went from there into the country near the wilderness, to a city called Ephraim, and there remained with His disciples. And the Passover of the Jews was near, and many went from the country up to Jerusalem before the Passover, to purify themselves.
  • So we have established Jesus was in Ephraim
• John 12:1 Then, six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was who had been dead, whom He had raised from the dead.
  • So we have established that he traveled from Ephraim (which was about 20 miles north of Jerusalem) to Bethany (which was a few miles from Jerusalem) - this is a full days journey. Why is this important? It is because John says Jesus traveled to Bethany 6 days before the Passover.

So let's count backward from a hypothetical Friday Passover:
Thursday 1 day before, Wednesday 2 days before, Tuesday 3 days before, Monday 4 days before, Sunday 5 days before, Saturday (the Sabbath) 6 days before. This is much more than allowable for a Sabbath's day journey. So if the crucifixion took place on Friday, Nissan 14, then we can establish His journey took place on the Sabbath. Travelling that distance on the sabbath was legally out of the question for a devout Jew. I do think this is problematic.
In Christ, Patrick

I think you may still be having issues with nailing sown the Jewish days in your accounting. In my timeline Thursday before sunset (our time) was when Y'shua was crucified, which is the Hebrew system of accounting was still Wednesday, Nissan 14, that started the night before. The day changes as the sun sets Thursday night as He is laid to rest in the tomb in time for the High Sabbath rest.


And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
Luke 24:20-21

In your timeline Thursday is the first day, which makes Sunday the fourth day, which contradicts Luke.[/QUOTE]

 

[Theo102]

"Point of reference before we spin ourselves endlessly on the topic. Jesus' prophecy specifically stated the Son of man would spend three days in the heart of the earth."

The point is that your timeline isn't consistent with Luke's testimony. In two cases out of three the sign of Jonah doesn't talk about the son on man spending time in the heart of the earth, so it's not cleat that this was an actual prophecy.

 

[John 1720]

"Point of reference before we spin ourselves endlessly on the topic. Jesus' prophecy specifically stated the Son of man would spend three days in the heart of the earth."

The point is that your timeline isn't consistent with Luke's testimony. In two cases out of three the sign of Jonah doesn't talk about the son on man spending time in the heart of the earth, so it's not cleat that this was an actual prophecy.

Hello Theo,
Well, I believe it is. If the detective has three witnesses who reported they saw a late model blue Ford sedan strike the parked red SUV on the corner but only one of the three took down the vehicle's license plate number, then I believe reason is better served by following up by running the plate and finding the car to check for paint stains and bent sheet metal.
I have more than adequately addressed all your concerns and points and so I will rest my case upon what I have already posited. On the other hand I haven't seen you address any of the crucial problems I put forth regarding a Friday Nissan 14 crucifixion. Since you raise no new issues, I'm quite content to let any casual observers reading these posts to let them judge our conclusions based on their relative merits.
Have a good day, Cheers
Patrick

 

[Theo102]

Hello Theo,
Well, I believe it is. If the detective has three witnesses who reported they saw a late model blue Ford sedan strike the parked red SUV on the corner but only one of the three took down the vehicle's license plate number, then I believe reason is better served by following up by running the plate and finding the car to check for paint stains and bent sheet metal.

Hi Patrick,

Your argument is a false equivalence. In the three texts relating to the sign of Jonah it's unlikely that the meaning of the sign would not be recorded by a witness. The meaning of the sign as given by the speaker isn't a detail that might not be observed like a number plate on a car. This is part of the larger synoptic problem of the gospels.

Regards, Theo

Luke 11
29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Matthew 12
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Matthew 16
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.