Expert: alliance between Pope, people grows as does resistance to him by clergy

[Michie]

Riccardi: “Here’s who’s standing up to Pope Francis”

"Vatican Insider" interviews Italian historian Andrea Riccardi: “The famous honeymoon period has not ended, a sign that the relationship between Francis and faithful is more than just a passing attraction. But there is defiance from bishops and the clergy”

Andrea Tornielli
vatican city

“Never before in the 20th century has a Pope faced so much resistance as Francis has” and “the fact that there is so much resistance shows that the Pope really is changing the Church.” These strong and in some ways surprising words came from Professor of Church history, Andrea Riccardi, in his latest commentary published in Italian weekly magazine Famiglia Cristiana. Vatican Insider asked him some questions about his above remarks.

You wrote that no Pope in the last century has faced so much resistance as Francis. Don’t you think that’s a bit of an exaggeration?

“I made these observations as a historian. Francis is facing internal opposition from within ecclesiastical bodies, the episcopates and the clergy. But his alliance with the people is clearly strong.”

What about the opposition to Paul VI and the recent and famous opposition faced by Benedict XVI?

“The only Pope who faced strong opposition was Paul VI, that’s true. But the Church and also society at the time were going through a period of general protest. In the case of Benedict XVI, which you rightly mentioned, the opposition came form the outside, from the international public, than it did from the inside. As I said, the resistance Francis is facing is stronger and it’s coming from within the Church.”

Could you give some examples?

“Some resistance has been public, whilst in other cases it has been muttered or not expressed at all, if not through silence and detachment. There are some who can’t stand it when papal preaching insists even slightly on ethical issues. But then there’s Francis’ pastoral approach which calls bishops’ method of leadership into question as they hear people asking: “Why don’t you do as the Pope does?” I don’t want to generalise too much but I am certain that there is resistance. Francis laid down his thoughts and the areas that needed to be worked on and changed, in the first six months of his pontificate. Unlike Paul VI who was a man of many words and tried to make balanced statements. Resistance comes from those who don’t want to be questioned and are averse to change.”

Why do you see silence as a form of “resistance”?

“It’s a way of pretending nothing happened, as if the Pope had not set an example to be followed. There are some who claim the Pope is not much a “theologian”. It makes me smile when I think back to when people used to say Benedict XVI was too much of a theologian, which is proof that a Pope’s predecessor is always seen as the “good” Pope. It is also worth noting that those who are showing resistance now, went on for years about the importance of the Pope’s authority and of showing obedience to the Pope. Strangely enough, some believe that if the Pope is not how they think he should be or do what they think he should do, he is only half a Pope. But Catholicism is not an ideology; it is an energetic force that grows throughout history. I repeat: I do not wish to generalise because there are also many enthusiastic bishops and when Francis’ message gets through (let us remember it doesn’t always get through and doesn’t always reach everyone), there is a really positive reaction and people’s faith is revived.”

Some of the most fiery attacks against the Pope appear on so-called traditionalist websites and blogs but are also launched by intellectual media circles, such as some articles published by Italian newspaper Il Foglio …


“Yes, but the articles you are referring to express opinions that are shared by certain ecclesiastical circles. These kinds of reactions spring from an unfulfilled vision of how secularised society should be a society in which the Christian minority is struggling to defend certain ethical values. But what Francis is talking about is a people’s Christianity, a missionary Christianity.”

How do you view the movements’ reaction to the new pontificate?


“Christianity isn’t an ideology; the Church doesn’t change its line of thinking but grows throughout history as I said. Catholics are faithful to the Pope, from Pius XII to Francis. This is what being Catholic is about. Otherwise we are just a bunch of ideologists. Today there are ideological visions that are collapsing. The movements should also get in tune with the “Evangelii Gaudium” instead of self-reproducing.”

In the early months of Francis’ pontificate some predicted and in some cases actually hoped that the Pope’s so-called honeymoon with the media and the people would come to an end. But it seems to be continuing… “The honeymoon isn’t over because it’s much more than just a media phenomenon. What the Church needs to do is to recognise the example Francis is setting and the evangelisation and pastoral care model he is proposing. It is a model that rises to the challenges of the modern world we live in and it is being proposed by a Pope who was born, lived and served as a bishop in a city like Buenos Aires.”

Riccardi: “Here’s who’s standing up to Pope Francis” - Vatican Insider

 

[ebia]

Interesting

 

[Angeldove97]

GOOD! Gotta shake up the Church a bit and wake up our pastoral leaders!

But then there’s Francis’ pastoral approach which calls bishops’ method of leadership into question as they hear people asking: “Why don’t you do as the Pope does?”

See this would bug me too- as a teacher I've had parents tell me how to teach because that's what another teacher does ("Why don't you do as my child's other teacher does?"). Yes we do have priests who are trying their best, but we need to realize that each priest- just like each layman- has a personal relationship with Christ and that looks different for everybody. Some aren't called to give up all their material worth (such as our Archbishop in Newark who has a pretty sweet looking "retirement home" - *cough cough* mansion). The way that Pope Francis is living his life should be a suggested way of living but not even he can force it upon his fellow priests.

Still it concerns me- I know you can't keep going when you have your own internal people annoyed with you

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

A friend of mine who was recently at a conference in Rome on church-state relations found that many people felt Francis' bold acts of humility, inasmuch as they are meant to effect change in addition to being an honest expression of his personal virtues, are not aimed by the clergy, whether bishops or cardinals. Rather, they are specifically meant to decrease the profile of the Vatican staff, especially that massive bureaucracy of professional laity and clergy operating outside the College of Cardinals.

If that's the case, any silent resistance on the part of clergy to the pontiff is severely misplaced. On the other hand, it wouldn't hurt if the clergy, as well as the bureaucracy, took lead from his fine example.

 

[judechild]

I am really getting tired of this kind of thing.

Andrea Riccardo is a good man, and sometimes I pray with the San'Egito community at the church of Santa Maria in Trastevere, but he strikes me as a little dull. Adding to that, you really have to be careful of anything that Andrea Tornelli, the journalist, puts out; he sees plots behind every shadow - he's one of the crew that alleges the published Third Secret of Fatima is fake, and he also tried recently to paint the Pope-Emeritus as not having really, truly, sincerely, accurately, maybe, kind-of-didn't resign.

Doesn't it seem a bit odd that, in answer to Tornelli's ''could you give some examples'' of the resistance coming from the clergy, Riccardi gave no examples at all? The convenient thing about ''silent'' or ''muttered'' resistance is that it can't be either proved or questioned. And yet, Riccardi is ''certain that there is resistance.'' And Tornelli leading-question about traditionalist blog completely misses two points: 1) they weren't happy with Benedict either and 2) they're mostly harmless; they aren't in any position to be ''resistance'' in the meaningful sense. So, I'd really want tho see some real examples, if I'm to believe Ricarrdi.

I've pretty much stopped praying with the Sant'Egido community, precisely because I could feel them watching me, seeing of I'm a Pope Francis man or not. One of them questioned my commitment to a life of simplicity on the basis of my winter hat (a clerical beret that is very warm). I don't think he saw my broken shoe. So far, I've only found judgemental and arroogant people among the most vocal supporters of the Pope while, in the meantime, I know that many of ''the faithful'' in the parishes are upset with Francis; many of the people in Rome's pews perceive him as coming in with no respect for their own traditions. One woman at the parish I go to on Saturdays told me that she thinks he ''wants to turn Rome into New Buenos Aires'' - this was after he had limited Monsignors somewhat, which the Romans consider a part of their culture. Is that ''resistance''?

I will defend the Pope against any detractor, but I'm getting fed up with the self-righteousness of his loudest supporters.

 

[Fantine]

The priests I know all seem very happy with Pope Francis, and our bishop is the kind of bishop Pope Francis would appoint--may there be many more like him appointed throughout the country.

I think that those priests whose natural style is more like Pope Francis' feel more free to be themselves, and those whose natural style is more traditional are being more circumspect in their behavior.

 

[MikeK]

I am really getting tired of this kind of thing.

Andrea Riccardo is a good man, and sometimes I pray with the San'Egito community at the church of Santa Maria in Trastevere, but he strikes me as a little dull. Adding to that, you really have to be careful of anything that Andrea Tornelli, the journalist, puts out; he sees plots behind every shadow - he's one of the crew that alleges the published Third Secret of Fatima is fake, and he also tried recently to paint the Pope-Emeritus as not having really, truly, sincerely, accurately, maybe, kind-of-didn't resign.

Doesn't it seem a bit odd that, in answer to Tornelli's ''could you give some examples'' of the resistance coming from the clergy, Riccardi gave no examples at all? The convenient thing about ''silent'' or ''muttered'' resistance is that it can't be either proved or questioned. And yet, Riccardi is ''certain that there is resistance.'' And Tornelli leading-question about traditionalist blog completely misses two points: 1) they weren't happy with Benedict either and 2) they're mostly harmless; they aren't in any position to be ''resistance'' in the meaningful sense. So, I'd really want tho see some real examples, if I'm to believe Ricarrdi.

I've pretty much stopped praying with the Sant'Egido community, precisely because I could feel them watching me, seeing of I'm a Pope Francis man or not. One of them questioned my commitment to a life of simplicity on the basis of my winter hat (a clerical beret that is very warm). I don't think he saw my broken shoe. So far, I've only found judgemental and arroogant people among the most vocal supporters of the Pope while, in the meantime, I know that many of ''the faithful'' in the parishes are upset with Francis; many of the people in Rome's pews perceive him as coming in with no respect for their own traditions. One woman at the parish I go to on Saturdays told me that she thinks he ''wants to turn Rome into New Buenos Aires'' - this was after he had limited Monsignors somewhat, which the Romans consider a part of their culture. Is that ''resistance''?

I will defend the Pope against any detractor, but I'm getting fed up with the self-righteousness of his loudest supporters.

I cannot express how much I appreciate the boots-on-the-ground perspective you bring to this forum. With so much garbage being passed along through a seemingly endless series of blogs and quasi-Catholic web magazines that amount to little more that political propaganda or tabloid journalism, you are a breath of fresh air.

 

[MoonlessNight]

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms among you; but that you be perfect in the same mind, and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been signified unto me, my brethren, of you, by them that are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith: I indeed am of Paul; and I am of Apollo; and I am of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

These ideas that we must embrace Francis and reject Benedict, or embrace Benedict and reject Francis (as well as the corresponding ideas that we must embrace only compassion and reject theology, or embrace tradition and reject pastoral concerns, etc.) are saddening and maddening.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

The priests I know all seem very happy with Pope Francis, and our bishop is the kind of bishop Pope Francis would appoint--may there be many more like him appointed throughout the country.

I think that those priests whose natural style is more like Pope Francis' feel more free to be themselves, and those whose natural style is more traditional are being more circumspect in their behavior.

The priests I know are on the conservative/traditional side of things. They all like Pope Francis. I know one priest where I used to live that blogs a lot, and he has said a couple of negative things. But that's one out of around 20 priests I know personally. I think this "tension" between clergy and the Pope is mostly media hype looking for a story.