Experiences

[Soverinth]

There are a few things that bother me at times when i think about them.

I've been researching a lot about True Christianity.

So far I've only come across these events:

True conversion a.k.a. complete change in heart and mind, actually feeling the presence of God at that moment, only happens to people that truly want it or need it.

Now i myself want to be saved, and told the Lord that "I give up trying to save myself, i surrender to you, i need to be saved Lord, please forgive me"

^That's not exactly what i prayed, i just cant remember it all.^

Now i have yet to personally experience the presence of the Lord. I mean of course i know he is there everyday and everywhere, but i just haven't ever had one of these life changing experiences. I'm starting to think i am not ready for it, like i know its always available but what i mean is that i have tried to call upon the Lord many times to ask him to save me and i'm guessing i just don't fully understand it yet. I guess i just don't know what it truly means to be "Poor in Spirit"

I just wish i had some kind of change to happen. I watch all these testimonies of people having life changing experiences, and i think to myself, i want that, why can't i have that? Then i think to myself, i must not be ready or am too selfish about it. I don't really know.

I've also noticed that the majority (but not all as there are a lot of others that don't have a terrible life and are saved) of these testimonies are of people who lived cruddy lives, they were all in bad situations. Drugs, alcohol, cults. Some of them even ended up in Jail. And in the midst of all this, in the worst of it all, God spoke to them. And it changed them, they were saved.

I get worried because i haven't lived this cruddy life like they have. Don't get me wrong i don't live a life of luxury but I've never really had a bad childhood. There were a few times i got into trouble but it wasn't constantly. I was never considered the bad kid. I have even been considered a second son to a lot of the parents of past friends that I've had. I feel as if because i was one of the good kids and a nicer person than most that I've been privileged too much to the point that ill never fully understand what it means to be "Poor in spirit"

And it's because of my life so far i at times fear that i can't be saved.

I just wish there was some kind of answer to all of this, or just a sign of what i'm doing wrong. Can anyone please help?


Edit: Most of my issues concerning this have already been answered below and on other pages of this thread, so i am content now. If you still wish answer this first post, go right ahead.

 

[Faulty]

I didn't live a "cruddy" life either. Having been born again as a child, I was spared a lot of the pain this life has to offer so far.

In some, God is given the glory of saving some out of the most miserable of life experiences. Others, He is given glory out of keeping people from these same experiences.

Being "poor in spirit" doesn't mean haven been beaten up by life, as it applies to our sins, not our experiences. Such a person realizes that God is good, but they are not. They realize they cannot earn their standing with God and their sin separates them from Him, and does so forever if it ever depended on themselves to make up for it. This person realizes there is nothing they can do in this matter and relies fully instead on the sacrifice of Jesus, and His work alone, as sufficient to justify them, reconciling them to the Father.

It's in this work of Jesus alone they trust, and in no works of their own, because the slightest hint of thinking there is something they can do to contribute to their salvation, shows they really do not trust in Jesus completely, but rather in themselves instead. Such a person is prideful and lost the exact opposite of one "poor in spirit".

 

[Soverinth]

I hear when people are truly saved, their life changes completely, mind and heart. I get worried becuase I ask God that I want to he saved but nothing really changes, and thats why I think at times that I'm not ready for something like this. I'm just trying to figure this all put I guess.

 

[hedrick]

People are different, and have different experiences. Not everyone is going to have the same kind of conversion. It depends upon your current life, and to some extent the kind of Christianity you convert to.

At a minimum I'd expect you to start having some kind of devotional life, maybe Bible reading and prayer, and to start participating in a Christian community. Over time that is likely to result in other changes in your life.

I would guess that the dramatic total reversal is actually less common than your current experience. I would think most changes would occur slowly, as you come to understand Jesus more, and as regular prayer gives you an opportunity to see what he wants you to do.

In another posting you ask about prayer. I don't believe God normally works miracles. Most Christians will tell you about unexpected things that have happened that they think are response to prayer, but for most of us they don't happen very often. Normally God doesn't remove problems, but brings us through them. And he mostly uses human agents to do that.

Mostly prayer is an opportunity to bring yourself into alignment with God. I do believe that prayer changes things, but usually it changes them by creating what I'd call a spiritual climate for change.

 

[Soverinth]

I didn't live a "cruddy" life either. Having been born again as a child

What happened when you were born again as a child?

I'm only asking because there are a lot of false converts out there. They were convinced that saying the Sinners Prayer when they were younger that they were automatically saved because the pastor said they were. And then they go back to living their life the same way thinking they are saved when they really aren't. Their lifestyle shows no evidence that Christ is in their life.

Now i'm not saying your a false convert i'm just making sure that you know your not because you could have been one of the many to fall into that problem.

If you really are saved then that's good

 

[bling]

There are a few things that bother me at times when i think about them.

I've been researching a lot about True Christianity.

So far I've only come across these events:

True conversion a.k.a. complete change in heart and mind, actually feeling the presence of God at that moment, only happens to people that truly want it or need it.

Now i myself want to be saved, and told the Lord that "I give up trying to save myself, i surrender to you, i need to be saved Lord, please forgive me"

^That's not exactly what i prayed, i just cant remember it all.^

Now i have yet to personally experience the presence of the Lord. I mean of course i know he is there everyday and everywhere, but i just haven't ever had one of these life changing experiences. I'm starting to think i am not ready for it, like i know its always available but what i mean is that i have tried to call upon the Lord many times to ask him to save me and i'm guessing i just don't fully understand it yet. I guess i just don't know what it truly means to be "Poor in Spirit"

I just wish i had some kind of change to happen. I watch all these testimonies of people having life changing experiences, and i think to myself, i want that, why can't i have that? Then i think to myself, i must not be ready or am too selfish about it. I don't really know.

I've also noticed that the majority (but not all as there are a lot of others that don't have a terrible life and are saved) of these testimonies are of people who lived cruddy lives, they were all in bad situations. Drugs, alcohol, cults. Some of them even ended up in Jail. And in the midst of all this, in the worst of it all, God spoke to them. And it changed them, they were saved.

I get worried because i haven't lived this cruddy life like they have. Don't get me wrong i don't live a life of luxury but I've never really had a bad childhood. There were a few times i got into trouble but it wasn't constantly. I was never considered the bad kid. I have even been considered a second son to a lot of the parents of past friends that I've had. I feel as if because i was one of the good kids and a nicer person than most that I've been privileged too much to the point that ill never fully understand what it means to be "Poor in spirit"

And it's because of my life so far i at times fear that i can't be saved.

I just wish there was some kind of answer to all of this, or just a sign of what i'm doing wrong. Can anyone please help?

You sound a lot like me.

I was “raised” Christian, was a good kid, great parents, and did the right stuff, but I can’t say I ever felt God really being “with me”. I did lots of wonderful stuff teaching others, living and working in the intercity, scout master, Bible Teacher, and taught one on one. I thought I deserved salvation, until I went too substituted teach a Sunday school class at the men youth prison (13-21) (God really knows how to set you up). I thought that would be a wonderful nice experience (something I could add to my spiritual resume). There were 4 teachers with groups of 15 each from (9-10) I arrived at 9:02 the other teachers had started and my group were all sitting waiting for me (I figured they had nothing else to do). There were some just doing it for show and some were there to tell granny (visiting later that day) what they learned, but there were also nine that were fanatical about their believe (24/7, witnessing, fellowshipping, studying, praying, serving, persecuted and were fully prepared/wanting to suck the truth right out of me). I did not realize there were Christians like them (they were first century, putting their life on the line every day, being beaten and cursed and holding strong living like Christ).

I left in a puddle of sweat and yet these guys did not want to hurt me and loved me. God had set me up for that lesson, it changed my life.

Watch what you pray for, you might just get it.

 

[Milan45]

I think I understand.

Faith = grows as the time goes. You'll feel it after some months.
Actions = Jesus don't wants you to look at your past.For example I often look at it, and I know I shouldn't. If you look; look to it as a warning: then you know you shouldn't do that again.
Other = Pray to God.He will help you with this.

God bless you much! If you need help with anything - feel free to contact me.

 

[Soverinth]

Its really bugging me, i want to do this so bad. If you guys don't mind I'm gonna make another post and its going to contain basically my life up until this point. I will be able to explain my issue so much better when you know most about me, and i'll try not to make it too long. I ask that anyone that reads it to take their time and please please please read it all. I really need help.

 

[aiki]

There are a few things that bother me at times when i think about them.

I've been researching a lot about True Christianity.

So far I've only come across these events:

True conversion a.k.a. complete change in heart and mind, actually feeling the presence of God at that moment, only happens to people that truly want it or need it.

True conversion doesn't require a complete change in mind and heart instantly or in order for conversion to happen. God works to transform a person's character and thinking over time so that it is better in line with His truth after conversion. All that is needed for genuine conversion is:

1.) A recognition of one's deep sinfulness.
2.) Genuine repentance from one's sinful lifestyle.
3.) Acceptance of Christ as one's Saviour and submission to him as Lord.

Feelings really have nothing to do with whether or not one is actually saved. It isn't the strength of one's feeling that one is saved that actually produces salvation. Only faith in, and acceptance of, Christ as one's Saviour and Lord brings salvation. This belief and acceptance is an act of the will and mind, not the emotions.

Now i have yet to personally experience the presence of the Lord. I mean of course i know he is there everyday and everywhere, but i just haven't ever had one of these life changing experiences.

Is the truth that God's Spirit dwells within you the moment you are saved a matter of what you feel, or is it a matter of believing what Scripture says? Are the truths of the Bible less true if you don't feel them? Of course not. Does it cease to be true that the planet Jupiter exists if you feel that it does not? Obviously not. In the same way, your feelings (or lack thereof) do not make what God says is true actually true. His truth is true regardless of what you feel.

If you want to see change in your life as a follower of Christ, get into the Bible! Saturate your mind with God's truth and you will find it has a transforming effect upon you. Let His word "dwell in you richly" and you will find yourself changing into the person Scripture declares you to be as a child of God.

I'm starting to think i am not ready for it, like i know its always available but what i mean is that i have tried to call upon the Lord many times to ask him to save me and i'm guessing i just don't fully understand it yet. I guess i just don't know what it truly means to be "Poor in Spirit"

No, I think you're expecting some remarkable experience, some powerful emotional moment, to mark your spiritual birth, but God never promises anything like this when He promises to save us. He expects we'll simply take Him at His Word and trust Him. Faith in God is an act of the will; feelings mustn't serve as the basis for your trust in God. They are too changeable, too subjective to be an anchor for one's beliefs.

There were a few times i got into trouble but it wasn't constantly. I was never considered the bad kid. I have even been considered a second son to a lot of the parents of past friends that I've had. I feel as if because i was one of the good kids and a nicer person than most that I've been privileged too much to the point that ill never fully understand what it means to be "Poor in spirit"

You aren't fundamentally a good person. THis is one of the hardest things to accept about the Gospel. As far as God is concerned, you are foul enough to deserve an eternity in hell. If you don't accept His gift of salvation, that's exactly where you'll end up! As nice as you may seem to those around you, you have a core of rottenness that only God can cure. Are you willing to submit to God's view of you?

Luke 7:36-47
36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee's house, and sat down to eat.
37 And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil,
38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil.
39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, "This man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner."
40 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." So he said, "Teacher, say it."
41 "There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.
42 And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?"
43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have rightly judged."
44 Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head.
45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.
46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.
47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."

When you realize that you are just as the woman in this story saw herself to be, then you will understand how great a thing it is that God has stooped to save you. And it is only with this understanding that you will be able to walk rightly with God.



Selah.

 

[Soverinth]

Well i want to thank you guys, your great wisdom has helped me.

So I'm guessing i should just start daily bible reading for now?

Let me know if i am still missing anything.

 

[hedrick]

Well i want to thank you guys, your great wisdom has helped me.

So I'm guessing i should just start daily bible reading for now?

Let me know if i am still missing anything.

That's a really good start. Let me be a bit more specific:

1) Combine the Bible reading with prayer. In particular, think prayerfully about how what you're reading might affect you. Consider using a study guide. If you're new at the Bible, there's lots of background that will really help you. There are lots of good guides, but I'd start with one of the Gospels (probably Matthew). My recommended guide is N T Wright, Matthew for Everybody (which comes in two volumes, not because it's long, but because the format called for short books). He's got similar books for lots of other Biblical books. (There are actually two series. You want XXX for Everyone, not XXX (N T Wright for Everyone Bible Study Guides). The Study Guides are intended for use in groups.) If you like eBooks, they are available for Kindle or the Kindle PC book readers.

2) For prayer, include all the parts. We give our kids (I teaching 7th and 8th grade Sunday School) the acronym ACTIS: Adoration, Confession, Thanksgiving, Intercession, Supplication.

Adoration: celebrate God.

Confession: prayerfully think about how you're doing. Don't beat yourself up. Think whether you've hurt anyone. Do you owe them an apology? Are there things in your life you need to change? If so, it's probably best to pick one and start with it. In your case, don't be too hasty about this.

Thanksgiving: think about everything good in your life and around you. Thank God for it.

Intercession: are there people around you that need help? I should note intercessory prayer is not a demand for a miracle. God more often brings people through problems rather than getting rid of them, though very unexpected things certainly do happen when you're praying. For most of us they happen fairly rarely though. It's at least half about changing your own attitudes. When you pray about something you're volunteering to be part of the solution. But don't go running off, abandoning the place you're called to be in.

Supplication: similar to intercession, but normally requests involving you. (Another version of the acronym is ACTS, which includes intercession as part of supplication.)

3) Look for a good group of Christians to hang around with. (For you, I'd say just getting out of the house is important. And you don't have to spend all your time with Christians. At your age, it's a good thing to get experience working with a variety of people. There's no need to give up your online interactions. Just do some real-world interactions too, and don't let games become too much of an obsession.)

With most kids, we try to push them to take Jesus seriously. With you, the warning sort of needs to go the other direction. Being a Christian isn't about being a hero. Quite often people are called to stay where they are, and to look carefully at the people around them and see how best to support them. Of course people are also called to be ministers, or missionaries, or whatever. But 99.9% of the time a high school student should look at his school work, think about what kind of thing he's called to do next, and look at his relationships with families and friends, and see how he can be most helpful to them. And of course look at his spiritual life, and grow in relationship to God.

I'd be happy to keep talking with you.

----

Finally, prayer should normally cause your life to make more sense. If I slack off, my life generally gets discombobulated. If Christianity itself is discombobulating you, you're probably doing something wrong. Possibly trying to do too much too quickly, or listening to legalists. Of course God will call you to do challenging things at times, but that's a different matter, I think. Please don't fall into the trap of having to Do Something in order to show that you're saved. Jesus did what is necessary. You don't need to prove to him that he did the right thing in saving you. You just have to live the kind of life he wants.

 

[aiki]

Well i want to thank you guys, your great wisdom has helped me.

So I'm guessing i should just start daily bible reading for now?

Let me know if i am still missing anything.

All of the Christian life is centered around walking in fellowship with God, your Heavenly Father. Communication is absolutely vital to any relationship - including the one you have with God. Let Him speak to you through His Word and respond to Him with words of your own in prayer. God isn't an idea to defend, but a Person to know and love. Deal with Him as such. Be careful to invest daily in your relationship with your Maker, just as you do any other relationship that you value.

I would strongly urge you to obtain a MacArthur Study Bible.

Selah.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hi,

you don't need to have experiences of feeling and the like to be a Christian, I had a few when I first got saved, but have had none since, or very little. Yet I have seen many miracles in my life. To read about them go to Know God Personally.

Relationship with God is not based upon feelings, it is based upon God's love for us, and faithfulness to us. He is fathful to us to save us regardless of if our faith is big or small. When we accept him he accepts us, he does not cast us out. Persist in your faith and you will experience miracles, even if it takes some time. God is a miraculous God, and wants to make himself known to us.

 

[dysert]

Armizer,

As was said earlier, salvation is not related to feelings. (Good thing, too, or I'd be hosed.) Neither is it related to experiences. It's a one-on-one "transaction" between you and Jesus. If you pray from the heart and say something like this:

1. I know I'm a sinner and am sorry for that.
2. I repent of my sin and want to live for you.
3. Please forgive me and be Lord of my life.

God will do what you've asked, and you are therefore saved -- regardless of what you may feel, and regardless of your experiences.

I was never a "bad boy" either. God saved me at a young age (11), so there was no big transformational process that occurred. But it's just as cool to be saved *from* a sinful life as it is to be saved *out of* a sinful life.

If you've prayed the prayer, believe God that He has saved you. Although you may not see a big change now, as you live your life for Him, you'll be able to look back and realize that your life has grown into one reflective of God's nature as opposed to a life that's grown into one of rebellion against God. That's the experience you'll see as you live for Him over time.

I don't know why He doesn't reveal Himself so vividly as a burning bush or pillar of fire. That would be nice. But He has revealed Himself in His Word, and what we need to do is believe that and live our lives (with His help) accordingly.

 

[Mikeb85]

'Experiences' don't mean anything and can't be trusted. For everyone who has an 'experience' that confirms their faith, another will have one that causes them to doubt it. 'Experiences' are nothing more than a distraction, a feeling that is fleeting.

The beliefs than will endure are the ones that are tested, that are doubted, and generally the more mundane, everyday kind of things. For instance, everyday prayer or meditation is a great habit to get into, helps to clear the mind, and calm the nerves. Once it becomes habit then perhaps your perspective will be more what you desire.

If your particular denomination doesn't have a contemplative tradition, then quiet reading and reflection, followed by prayer might be want you want to do. Either way, to really understand one's religion, and get the benefits that come from it, it must be practiced everyday. Not as a prerequisite for salvation, but as an exercise that enhances your life, today, strengthens faith, and leads to happiness.

 

[artqween]

'Experiences' don't mean anything and can't be trusted. For everyone who has an 'experience' that confirms their faith, another will have one that causes them to doubt it. 'Experiences' are nothing more than a distraction, a feeling that is fleeting.

The beliefs than will endure are the ones that are tested, that are doubted, and generally the more mundane, everyday kind of things. For instance, everyday prayer or meditation is a great habit to get into, helps to clear the mind, and calm the nerves. Once it becomes habit then perhaps your perspective will be more what you desire.

If your particular denomination doesn't have a contemplative tradition, then quiet reading and reflection, followed by prayer might be want you want to do. Either way, to really understand one's religion, and get the benefits that come from it, it must be practiced everyday. Not as a prerequisite for salvation, but as an exercise that enhances your life, today, strengthens faith, and leads to happiness.

I believe someone is having a bad day. i believe experiences r s moment good or bad. u learn from
It. if some one trashes u.. Then u
Realize thats their prob. It may hurt
Thats when crying comes in. Or
If some one had a positive feeling
Of happiness.. Got baptistized or
Etc.. That is way great. btw.. Hi
And plezd to meet u.

 

[artqween]

I hear when people are truly saved, their life changes completely, mind and heart. I get worried becuase I ask God that I want to he saved but nothing really changes, and thats why I think at times that I'm not ready for something like this. I'm just trying to figure this all put I guess.

Aww never disbare.. When u
Invite God in ur heart.. U may feel
Great.. I know i do. When humble
Urself to God.. U may feel inner
Cleaned i call it. consider getting
On ur knees and doing the above..
With family, at ur local church with
Ur family,... U may feel that awesome inner clean feeling... ;-)
Always love urself first,
Artqween
O, btw.. Hi and plezd to meet u
.

 

[Soverinth]

Thank you guys for your recent help but I actually forgot about this post a long time ago, and while experiences can be helpful and harmful, we should not rely on our feelings for this kind of thing. I can't not stress that enough, feelings are so deceiving when it comes to faith in Christ. I have been struggling so much with this issue. It's made my doubt my salvation so much and caused me to have days where I'm deeply depressed and crying.

That is why it is by faith, not by sight. It's hard at first and I mean it can be hard (its been harder than I ever thought it would be) you just have to trust the Lord on this. Having trust like that can create joy in your heart like no other. It's trust that, even through all the hardships and struggle, the ending or just peacful moments are not far from happening.

Believe by faith, Not by sight. Faith is stronger than sight and doesn't fail you if it is in Jesus. Sight can be deceiving.

Go in peace everyone. I think I might close this thread, I don't need it anymore.

 

[artqween]

Thank you guys for your recent help but I actually forgot about this post a long time ago, and while experiences can be helpful and harmful, we should not rely on our feelings for this kind of thing. I can't not stress that enough, feelings are so deceiving when it comes to faith in Christ. I have been struggling so much with this issue. It's made my doubt my salvation so much and caused me to have days where I'm deeply depressed and crying.

That is why it is by faith, not by sight. It's hard at first and I mean it can be hard (its been harder than I ever thought it would be) you just have to trust the Lord on this. Having trust like that can create joy in your heart like no other. It's trust that, even through all the hardships and struggle, the ending or just peacful moments are not far from happening.

Believe by faith, Not by sight. Faith is stronger than sight and doesn't fail you if it is in Jesus. Sight can be deceiving.

Go in peace everyone. I think I might close this thread, I don't need it anymore.

Faith is stronge i agree.. However,
Sight can be just as stronge..
A child getting baptist and expressing joy. seeing a new born
Smile, seeing a beautiful day,
Birds singing, a beautiful cloudy, sunny day, looking at a rainbow
After it rains.. Wow that is sight
;-).. All those colors bold colors
I may add. in the sky.
Gotta love it... O, btw.. Hi and plezd to
Meet u soverinth... Interesting
User name...

 

[Soverinth]

Faith is stronge i agree.. However,
Sight can be just as stronge..
A child getting baptist and expressing joy. seeing a new born
Smile, seeing a beautiful day,
Birds singing, a beautiful cloudy, sunny day, looking at a rainbow
After it rains.. Wow that is sight
;-).. All those colors bold colors
I may add. in the sky.
Gotta love it... O, btw.. Hi and plezd to
Meet u soverinth... Interesting
User name...

lol Well those sights are not what I meant. Those ones you mentioned are good indeed. I see Gods beauty in all sorts of things in the world. What meant by sight is like trusting your feelings or relying on them. It's not a good idea because they can fail you and the devil can use them to mess you. Ive been struggling with it because I sometimes just don't feel saved, but we can't trust our feelings for that as they can fail us.

Nice to meet you too.

And thanks I enjoy my username. Unique and original. Something hard to create now a days.