Exoposition on John 3.4-12 in regards to "water"

[theseed]

3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "

The greek here is anonthen or anothen (I have seen both spellings). It means to be born again or born from above. Which translation would be better? Both, because both are necessary to get the full impact of the Gospel. Often John plays on words like this (e.g comprehend John 1.5, explain John 1.18, living water John 4, to the end John 13.10., Spirit John 3.8).

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

Ok, we see that Nicodemus comes at night, he loves the darkness rather than the light (John 3.1, 18-21; 1.5, 18). He does not understand The Light (Christ) because darkness does not comprehend the light unless God

Note the reference tothe womb (John 3.4).

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Possible interpretations

1) The water referse to Baptism: However, Sacremental Baptist see Baptism as one act of regeneration, and not 2.

2)Water is symbolic for the Holy Spirit, just like Holy Spirit and fire. Matt. 3.11, Luke 3.16, says that we can be baptized by fire. Is this literal or symbolic?

3)water refers to the the reference to the womb, as when a woman's water breaks. However, there seems to be no references of this greek coloqualism. However, John relys on symbols in his writing and Jesus Christ was creative with his use of language, so it is not beyond reason that this he could very well mean water breaking from birth. This would parallel the the John 3.4 (womb) and John 3.6, (flesh)

6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[2] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[3] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked. 10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Here again, we find that Nicodums does not understand heavenly things because he is not born from above. He is earthly or wordly. 50 + times in John we see the world to mean humanity, and it is dark and blind and does not understand the light (John 1.5,). We know that Nicodumus is not born from above, because he does not understand. Like others (Samaritan woman, Pharisees) in John's Gospel, he is blinded by his own assumptions and knowledge, (John 3.3). Only Christ is the source of heavenly knowledge (John 3.13).

 

[christian-only]

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'"

Titus 3:5 "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of rebirth and renewing of the Holy Spirit,"

Quite simply, being born of water and of the Spirit includes a washing in water and a renewal by the Holy Ghost. As Col 2:12 teaches, it is while we are in water baptism that the Holy Ghost regenerates us, "buried with Him in baptism, IN WHICH you also were raised with Him through faith in the operation of God, who raised Him from the dead."

PLUS, immediately after this conversation with Nicodemus Jesus began a ministry of water baptism and baptized more people than John!!!

 

[theseed]

Titus 3:5 "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of rebirth and renewing of the Holy Spirit,"

This means that it is the Holy Spirit that washes and renews

buried with Him in baptism, IN WHICH you also were raised with Him through faith in the operation of God, who raised Him from the dead."

baptism comes from the greek baptismos (Spell?), which simply means immersion. Hence, we are buried immersion with Christ in immersion and we are raised with Christ. Just as he was, and this through faith.

We see that baptism is a symbol. Hence, John baptized of water, but Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit (John 1.26, Matt. 3.11).

PLUS, immediately after this conversation with Nicodemus Jesus began a ministry of water baptism and baptized more people than John!!!

THAT'S NOT WHAT IT SAYS!!!!!!!!!!

John 4 (NIV)
1 When therefore the LORD knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

 

[AVBunyan]

John 3:3-7 – An Explanation

I seen a lot of confusion lately over the below text:

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

I would like to, if I can, clear up some misunderstandings on this verse.

There are two main doctrines that are here in this verse are as follows:
1. “Born again” vs. 3– linked to the popular phrase “born again”

2. “Water and of the Spirit” – most commonly linked to water baptism

I would like to tackle the second one first vs. 5 – water. This is the easiest. Note the context of verse 5 refers back to vs. 4. The Lord in verse 3 told Nicodemus that he had to be born again. Immediately Nicodemus thought he had to come out of the mother’s womb again. Jesus answers and two things take place: “Except a man be born of water (physical birth for you are in a sack of water inside the womb) and the Spirit you cannot enter in. Jesus said, “You must have a physical birth (womb of water) and a spiritual birth. There is no mention of water baptism here. The reference “of water” is associated with the physical birth that all men must have first. Look at verse 6 where Jesus talks of a fleshly birth (from the womb). There are two births being discussed: physical (“flesh is flesh”) and the spiritual birth.
The part regarding “born again” is a little tougher to follow. I will tell you what I believe and you study it through and see if these things be so (Acts. 17:11).

Jesus was dealing with one of the leaders of Israel and not Jesus used the word “ye” must be born again in vs.7 referencing the Jewish nation as a whole for Nicodemus was representing the leadership of the Jews at that time. Jesus didn’t say “you” must be born again but “ye” (plural). Now, let me paraphrase and then I will move on. “Marvel not…..unto thee (Nicodemus), Ye (Israel) must be born again.

Now lets look at this “born again”. As we all know Israel blew it with God in the OT. God now calls them “Loammi” for they are not God’s people. Though Israel walked away from God we know that God will bring back his people. God gave them the chance in the gospels and they killed Jesus. Jesus on the cross asks the Father to forgive them (Israel) for they knew not what they did so the Father gives them another chance in the book of Acts. As we know they stoned Stephen so…..Israel rejected God the Father in the OT., God the Son in the gospels and then, finally God the Holy Ghost in Acts. Despite all that rejection God still made and covenant with Israel and will honor it and make unbelieving Israel believing Israel. How and when will God do this?

First, how? By doing a supernatural work in their hearts. When? at the end of tribulation and right before they enter into the kingdom. God will revive the valley of dry bones in Ezek. 37:4-14 by His Spirit. Now compare this passage with Isa. 66:8 (note “born at once”) and Eze. 36:26,27. Now go to Heb. 8:8 and you will get a complete picture. Right before the 1,000 yr. Reign the Lord will raise up unbelieving Israel, put a new heart and Spirit in them and then take them into the land that was promised to them. Then they will become the nation of priests on earth resenting God to the nations of the earth.

So, yes, Nicodemus, you have to born physically first and then “Ye” (Israel) will experience a spiritual birth. Now, note, their being “born again” will be their same form of bodies just a rebuilding of a human body that will house God’s Spirit. That is why the term “born again” fits this. This operation of God will be just a new birth from their old bodies redone.

How does this relate to us for you hear the term “born again” all the time? Now, let’s have some fun and get a blessing. When God saved your sorry soul (mine too) He didn’t just take your old body and put a new Spirit in it. It looks as though that is all He did but there is more. We need to see ourselves as God truly sees us. What happened to you is that you were made a new “creature” – II Cor. 5:17. Why did Paul use the term “new creature”? Because when you were saved you were spiritually baptized into the body of Christ – this was a new operation not done before this age of grace. You became bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh and raised you up and seated you in heavenly palaces at the right hand of God (Eph. 1,2). Therefore you are a new “creature” in Christ and nobody before this age has this privilege. Israel gets some land and you get to be a part of Christ’s body in the heavenly palaces for all eternity? Yeeehaaaw – Gloreeeeee to God!

Can’t you see you are not just “born again” (sounds good and all and I don’t panic when people use it.) You have been made a new creature in Christ Jesus. Won’t you admit that somebody being literally put in the literal body of Christ is a “new creature.” Yes, my dear saints, you have something better than just getting into the land. You have Christ in you, the hope of glory. You (the body of Christ) are part of a plan by God that was from “BEFORE” the foundation of the world. In other words you were planned in eternity. Israel and the Gentiles was just “from” the foundation of the world – Matt. 25:24. Your standing in Christ was from “before” the foundation of the world. The body of Christ is not limited to mansions - John 14 – our abode is above the third heavens in eternity with Christ (Eph. 2:4). Look at you, it is Christ “in” you. The disciples just had the Spirit dwelling amongst them (John 14:17 - Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.).

You may be down here in your old, tired, sinful flesh but the real you (saved and redeemed, glorified, etc.) is in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Your standing is this – Perfect in the Son seated at the right hand of God, perfect with Christ’s righteousness. This is how God sees the real you. Now your state down here may be in a mess but up there where the real you is it is perfect. This is what God did to you through Christ at Calvary.

Now, what is your duty because of so great privileges? Turn to Eph. 4:1. God just got finished telling you what great things He hath done for you in the first three chapters of Ephesus and in 4:1 He tells you what to do about it. Paul says, “Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,”. You are perfect in heaven blessed with all spiritual blessings then walk down here like you believe it. In other words “walk, your position.” In the following 3 chapters Paul tells you how you should act based upon your position in Christ.

So, I trust that someone will get a blessing. This is not original thinking from me. I learned this after being under the same preacher for over 20 years who seeks to know all he can about God, Christ and the Christian life. If you do not agree with this then, that’s ok for this a forum.

May God bless!

 

[christian-only]

I know all about the greek word for baptism. The fact is, however, that all the Greek in the world doesn't seem to do most people any good. Has anyone here ever read Col 2:12 "...baptism...IN WHICH you were raised with him..." - Yes, it is a outward sign of an inward grace, but is also a SIMULTANEOUS sign - that is, a sign of the grace that is received in itself. Where are we resurrected with Christ? IN BAPTISM. Not before, but IN. IT's that simple - just accept it!

Mat 26:28 Jesus says *I shed my blood "FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS"
Acts 2:38 Peter says *Be baptized "FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS"

Jesus shed his blood so that we may have remission of sins, and we are to be baptized so that we may have remission of sins: that is, we are baptized into His death, meaning that we receive the benefits of His death in baptism, Rom 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death (by baptism), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection (have remission of sins):"

 

[theseed]

we are baptized into His death, meaning that we receive the benefits of His death in baptism, Rom 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death (by baptism), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection (have remission of sins):"

Yes, we are immersed in his death, and we live again too, just has he does. The old passed away, and the new has come (1 Cor. 5.17). '

This is why they say, "I baptize you, my brother, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, buried with Christ in baptism, rasied to walk in the newness of life"



Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[ischus]

I know all about the greek word for baptism. The fact is, however, that all the Greek in the world doesn't seem to do most people any good. Has anyone here ever read Col 2:12 "...baptism...IN WHICH you were raised with him..." - Yes, it is a outward sign of an inward grace, but is also a SIMULTANEOUS sign - that is, a sign of the grace that is received in itself. Where are we resurrected with Christ? IN BAPTISM. Not before, but IN. IT's that simple - just accept it!

Mat 26:28 Jesus says *I shed my blood "FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS"
Acts 2:38 Peter says *Be baptized "FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS"

Jesus shed his blood so that we may have remission of sins, and we are to be baptized so that we may have remission of sins: that is, we are baptized into His death, meaning that we receive the benefits of His death in baptism, Rom 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death (by baptism), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection (have remission of sins):"

 

[daveleau]

I did a study a while back and looked at all the verses that talk about water baptism. If I remember correctly, the inital verse quoted here is the only verse that speaks specifically about water in regards to baptism as a requirement for salvation. The other times that baptism is used as a requirement for salvation either talks only about the baptism of by the Holy Spirit, or it does not specify. This is a long disagreement between Christians. I am not going to say that water baptism is required or not. I do hold a belief in regards to this subject, but I will leave finding that up to you, because you should find out for yourself through strenuous and longlasting prayer. What I will say, is that you can not be harmed by being baptised in water. Jesus asks us to do it elsewhere, so why not do it regardless of whether it is a requirement of salvation or not. Jesus asks us to minister to others. If we do not do it, we do not lose our salvation. But, it is a request for us to carry out. I think the same should go for water baptism, whether it is a sprinkle of water by a minister or a dunk in a tank by a minister. But that is another topic for another time and is sadly just as controversial...

 

[christian-only]

What I will say, is that you can not be harmed by being baptised in water. Jesus asks us to do it elsewhere, so why not do it regardless of whether it is a requirement of salvation or not.

That's just the point. Just doing it is worthless. Notice Colossains 2:12 "buried with Him in baptism, IN WHICH you also were raised with Him through faith in the operation of God, who raised Him from the dead." He says that INSIDE baptism we were resurrected with Christ, IF we had faith in the operation of God when we were being baptized. That is, only those who believe that the Holy Spirit will regenerate them inside water baptism will receive that regeneration - all others will never receive regeneration. So, if you "just do it" believing that you were ALREADY regenerated, then you will NEVER be regenerated. But if you are baptized believing that you will be regenerated by the Spirit while you are in the water, then you will be born of water and of the Holy Spirit and then you will enter the kingdom of God.

 

[daveleau]

Thanks for the PM.

I totally agree that baptism should not be done to fill a box on a checklist. That is not what I meant. When you are saved, you are baptized by the Holy Spirit. This is plainly stated in the Gospel. When this occurs, we yearn to do God's work. One work that God asks us to do is water baptism. The verse you mention may mean water baptism or baptism in the Holy Spirit. It could mean either, hence why we should assume it means water baptism. This is the most conservative interpretation. Baptism is used frequently in the NT by itself, and there is no way to distinguish it from baptism inthe Holy Spirit. 9 times, the NT talks of baptism as a requirement for Salvation, but only once in those 9 does it specify water baptism. What I am meaning in the above is that since we do not know, we should go ahead and assume that it is water baptism, despite the theological ranglings that often go on about this. There is no bad that can come of it, only good.

 

[Patt Myle]

the fire baptism is a literla experience, my friends dad told me it feels like a burning fire in your heart that washes out all the sins and thats when your spiritual gifts explode

 

[Patt Myle]

the fire baptism is a literal experience, my friends dad told me it feels like a burning fire in your heart that washes out all the sins and thats when your spiritual gifts explode

 

[Serapha]

Hi there!




welcome to the forums....

the fire baptism is a literal experience, my friends dad told me it feels like a burning fire in your heart that washes out all the sins and thats when your spiritual gifts explode

What Bible passage supports that theory?


~serapha~

 

[inhimitrust]

Because Christ hadn't died yet, the people had not yet received the Holy Spirit, which would both cleanse them and make them one with God. It is thru His Spirit that we would be His people, and accepting Jesus Christ as being sent by God to give us this message and by reading the Holy Bible, we come to know who God is and what He desires the most and helps us keep our relationship to Him strong. The bible must be read often, even 30 minutes a day, as it is a living book and God's Word's to us.

John 7:37 On the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet [given,] because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Jerem 2:13 "For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, [And] hewn themselves cisterns -- broken cisterns that can hold no water.

reve 21:6 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.