Executions Can Save Lives

[Dale]

Life in prison can save souls.

I’m glad to see you approaching the problem from a Christian point of view, but it is not that simple. Or it’s only that simple if you forget about the victims of crime.

Let me give you a different way of looking at it. I have no way of knowing the spiritual status of the three women who were killed by Paul Rowles. It is not my place to judge them, but I have to notice that the oldest of them died when she was 21. How many people have put it all together by the time they are 21? A lot of people find Christ much later than that.

If you will bear with me, assume that these three women were destined to find Jesus and be saved when they were 30. Where does that leave them? They died before they had a chance. As I said earlier, if Paul Rowles had been executed after being convicted of murder in 1976, the two later murders would not have happened.

 

[Yarddog]

You say that the death penalty “is not needed.” In other words, you are 100% satisfied with the crime rate.

Hmmm, how would any rational person draw that conclusion from what I wrote???

 

[Yarddog]

I’m glad to see you approaching the problem from a Christian point of view, but it is not that simple. Or it’s only that simple if you forget about the victims of crime.

Let me give you a different way of looking at it. I have no way of knowing the spiritual status of the three women who were killed by Paul Rowles. It is not my place to judge them, but I have to notice that the oldest of them died when she was 21. How many people have put it all together by the time they are 21? A lot of people find Christ much later than that.

If you will bear with me, assume that these three women were destined to find Jesus and be saved when they were 30. Where does that leave them? They died before they had a chance. As I said earlier, if Paul Rowles had been executed after being convicted of murder in 1976, the two later murders would not have happened.

That seems like a lot of "ifs" in order to rationalize "An eye for an eye". I don't know why Paul Rowles was released from prison, on parole, but we have a system of laws which can keep a murderer in prison, without killing them. DNA evidence connected Rowles with the past murder but many falsely accused people have been released from prison as a result of DNA evidence. We have no excuse for killing even guilty people when we have the means to protect citizens through incarceration of dangerous criminals.

God will judge both the murderers and the executioners. I pray for them all.

God bless

 

[DanishLutheran]

“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.” Matthew 5:7
“Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.” Luke 6:36
“For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.” James 2:13

I do not support the death penalty.

So by what logic do the misapplications of Scripture you posted above NOT extend to "Just forgive everyone, and forget laws and enforcing them"? Because I'm willing to bet that you're at least not willing to openly SAY this?

Two kingdoms. Caesar's does not work according to the rules of God's, and God's does not work according to the rules of Caesar's.

 

[jgarden]

Executions Can Save Lives

Given that America has 4% of the world's population, but approximately 25% of its prison population, the commonly held assumptions that incarceration and executions act as effective deterrents to crime just don't hold up to scrutiny!

 

[Dale]

“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.” Matthew 5:7
“Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.” Luke 6:36
“For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.” James 2:13

I do not support the death penalty.

Jesus never told us to stand by and watch while a crime is being committed. If mercy is to apply at all, it must apply after the crime stops. When a gangster, a member of organized crime, or a gang member, is on trial, the criminal gang they are part of is still committing crimes.

The crimes committed against Linda Fida, Elizabeth Foster and Tiffany Sessions aren’t mine to forgive. I am not the person who was wronged and I’m not related to them. It is one thing to be merciful to someone who has wronged me, and another thing to ignore serious crimes that menace the general public.

Anthony, you say that you don’t support the death penalty. What do you support? How do we deal with criminals?

 

[Anthony2019]

Anthony, you say that you don’t support the death penalty. What do you support? How do we deal with criminals?

Hello Dale
I agree with you that we have a duty to prevent crimes from happening, and I am all in favour of protecting the victims.

Whilst I agree with prison sentencing, this should be proportionate to the crime that has been committed. I don't think capital punishment is the answer as I feel that retribution serves little purpose other than to appease another's thirst for vengeance.

You will often hear victims of crime stating that they wish their perpetrators would "rot in hell". It seems to me that what they really want is for the offenders to feel something of the hurt they have caused them and others. Sentencing a criminal to death will never give them that opportunity.

Restorative justice not only gives criminals an opportunity to learn the gravity of their crimes, but it also gives them the opportunity to put things right and to become a better person.

 

[Mark Dohle]

What Does the Bible Say About Punishment For Murder?

We know what it says. It also says that parent should stone to death unruly children.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 King James Version (KJV)
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

 

[Mark Dohle]

One in 25 Sentenced to Death in the U.S. Is Innocent, Study Claims. If this is true, it is enough to stop using the death penalty. Human life is sacred, it is not about numbers, one wrongful death is one two many. I would think it is probably more. Life without parole is what is needed for men who are a threat to society. Also I write prisoners, many do turn to the Lord there, those in there for life do so. I am writng a prisoner who committed murder, he is in for life, but helps others and has given hsi life over to Jesus Christ. No one is outside of God's mercy. Though I am often filled with anger when I read about how people are so brutally murdered.

One in 25 Sentenced to Death in the U.S. Is Innocent, Study Claims

 

[Mountainmanbob]

We know what it says. It also says that parent should stone to death unruly children.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 King James Version (KJV)
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

I would never question God for he knows what He is doing.
We don't He does.
M-Bob

 

[Mark Dohle]

I would never question God for he knows what He is doing.
We don't He does.
M-Bob

You missed my point. There is the death penalty in the OT for those who commit murder, but also for many other crimes......does that mean we are called to continue to do it? Do parents have the right to excute their children? If life is sacred, if Jesus died for all, are we to use the state to kill. Espcially since it is usually the poor who die, the rich can afford lawyers that can get them off from meny heinus crimes.


Peace
Mark

 

[The Barbarian]

Texas has about 20 people sentenced to death for murders who managed to play the appeals game long enough for evidence to be found that showed them to be innocent. And those are just the lucky ones for which evidence appeared. We have no idea how many innocent people were condemned and weren't lucky.

So the question for those in favor of killing murderers, the question is:

"How many innocent people are you willing to kill, to make sure we kill murderers?"

How about it? I'd like to know what you think would be an acceptable number.

 

[The Barbarian]

I thought at least one person would have given us an estimate. Years ago, when I asked this question, one person suggested no more than 5%. Would that be O.K.?

 

[High Fidelity]

The problem isn't that he wasn't executed, it's that he was released.

So a better argument would be life without parole for certain crimes would save lives.

If we're going to kill anyone that has a higher risk of taking lives then by the same argument abortion would save lives too if babies with a genetic predisposition to traits such as psychopathy were terminated.

So yeah let's not go down that road.

 

[The Barbarian]

Hmm, hours have gone by and not a single one of the death penalty enthusiasts has dropped by to answer my question.

"How many innocent people would you be willing to kill, in order to kill murderers?"

 

[Newtheran]

Life in prison can save souls.

And letting violent felons out - because prisons (not graves, save one example) can be broken out of - can damn other souls. So you can't consider that a valid point of view without considering its opportunity cost.

 

[DanishLutheran]

Whilst I agree with prison sentencing,

But based on your own logic in the post I quoted before, you cannot agree with anything but complete and total forgiveness of all crimes, because mercy, right?
I'm not saying that IS your viewpoint, I'm saying that it is the only one open to you if you wish to be consistent with what you've written so far. Otherwise, you simply used Scripture arbitrarily to support a viewpoint you already held.

 

[DanishLutheran]

Oh, and the "How many innocents would you want to kill?" is easily answered with the classical: "When did you stop beating your wife?"-retort.

 

[Yarddog]

And letting violent felons out - because prisons (not graves, save one example) can be broken out of - can damn other souls. So you can't consider that a valid point of view without considering its opportunity cost.

So Jesus' example of showing mercy to the adulteress wasn't a valid point? Strange position for someone who's supposed to be a Christian to take.

 

[The Barbarian]

Oh, and the "How many innocents would you want to kill?" is easily answered with the classical: "When did you stop beating your wife?"-retort.

No, dodging the question won't work for you. Fact is we know numerous innocent people have been condemned to death in our lifetime. As I said, there are about 20 of them in Texas, lucky enough that they drew out the appeals process long enough for someone to establish their innocence. We don't know how many other innocent people weren't that lucky.

So the question you dodge is "How many innocent people would you be willing to kill, in order to kill murderers?"

You can dodge it as much as you like, but the question remains. If you have your way, innocent people will be executed by the state. The answer you gave us by refusing to answer is; "I don't care how many, I don't want to think about it."

Are you sure you want that to be your final answer?