Execution in the US and around the world.

[Goya]

What should we as Adventist Christians believe concerning what the Government around the world does to its prisoners?
-The Death penalty?
-Life in Prison?

 

[BondGirl]

I know this may be off topic - but my view of the death penalty is there shouldn't be one.

Now I know that there are some henious crimes out there. Some that you may really think deserve death. I guess my feeling is if there is even a slight chance that the person didn't do the crime - then there should be no death penalty.

After all - life in prison vs. death.

Death cannot be given a $$$ figure and a "I'm sorry".....that's permanent. Time lost...yes, that can't be given back either - but at least you can hear the "I'm sorry"....

 

[Cliff2]

I know this may be off topic - but my view of the death penalty is there shouldn't be one.

Now I know that there are some henious crimes out there. Some that you may really think deserve death. I guess my feeling is if there is even a slight chance that the person didn't do the crime - then there should be no death penalty.

After all - life in prison vs. death.

Death cannot be given a $$$ figure and a "I'm sorry".....that's permanent. Time lost...yes, that can't be given back either - but at least you can hear the "I'm sorry"....

This is a good question about the death penalty.

We do not have any divine right to take the life of another person. Some crimes are really terrible and the guilty person is so obvious the one who has done them.

But still at the end of the day I would not like to be the one who actually takes anothers life.

Here in Australia we have just seen the hanging of an Australia in an overseas country.

The young man was only 25 years of age. He was caught bringing drugs into the counrty of Singapore. Their punishemnt for that is death by hanging. In some ways fair enough as he had enough dope on him for about 24,000 hits of heroin. That is bad, in fact very bad.

But what about the person who is behind it all. Whoever it was got off free. If anyone is going to pay with their life for this, why not get the big ones.

I doubt if it will stop any drugs coming into Australia. As all that will happen is they will get smarter at bringing them in.

Even the last person to get hanged in Australia was Ronal Ryan in 1967 there now seems to be eveidence to suggest he may not have been guilty. Once a person is dead there is no bringing them back if they are then found to be not guilty.

 

[KayD]

What should we as Adventist Christians believe concerning what the Government around the world does to its prisoners?
-The Death penalty?
-Life in Prison?

Personally, I think the death penalty is harsh. But even in the OT there were laws regulating such (depending on the crime). But were it not for the hardness of the peoples hearts, maybe these laws would not have been necessary.

I would strongly prefer life in prison vs. the death penalty...but there's always the other side to that story as well...

 

[YeshuamySalvation]

Personally, I think the death penalty is harsh. But even in the OT there were laws regulating such (depending on the crime). But were it not for the hardness of the peoples hearts, maybe these laws would not have been necessary.

I would strongly prefer life in prison vs. the death penalty...but there's always the other side to that story as well...

Your right in the Old Testament only the government excuted judgment on the trangressor depending on the "nature of the violation", the Judges were to put people to death "As they determined" (Ex 21:1-36). that was the penalty that the administration of the law required death. It was added because of transgressions, this was the "administration" of the eternal law of God.

The "administration" of the law was glories like 2 Cor 3.... saids, but the ministration of the Spirit is even more glories, the administration of the law has been replaced by the ministration of the Spirit. Paul also speaks about the administration of the law in Gal 3:17.. It came into existance four hundred and thirty years later and it was added because of transgressions.

Moses was leader of both spiritual and civil matters alike but God was the one that dictated the sentences. Note also that in Samuel days the Israelites wanted a king to judge them as the rest of the nations (1 Samuel 8:7). So the"administration" of the law was passed to the hands kings.
Because the people rejected God, they no longer wanted the Lord as there king.

Execution in the US and around the world.

What should we as Adventist Christians believe concerning what the Government around the world does to its prisoners?
-The Death penalty?
-Life in Prison?

I believe how the government is runned today is terrible, it's extremely unjust, some people get falsly accused and put to death for a crime they did not commite, not so in Moses days the civil government and it's administration was overly just because God was both judge and king.

 

[BenchPress]

well... if everyone here frowns upon the death penalty to a degree... can we at least castrate the child molestors... im serious. they anger me the most. and it would probably help them too.

 

[moicherie]

The death penalty is outlawed in the U.K and all E.C states. Having grown up in a non death penalty culture I am more against it but over here the punishment for murder is a joke 'life in prison' does not mean 'life in prison'. If they stick to that maybe people here would not want the death penalty so much for heineous crimes.

 

[SassySDA]

well... if everyone here frowns upon the death penalty to a degree... can we at least castrate the child molestors... im serious. they anger me the most. and it would probably help them too.

Castration would not have the overall desired affect you would be looking for. It would work for possibly the smallest percentage of sex offenders.

Why? Because the offense has little to do with what's between their legs, and everything to do with what's between their ears.

One of the biggest hindrances to the solution of this problem is that there is such a myriad of reasons as to why one or another offense takes place. Each sex offense is different, and the perpetrator of said offense is different, but we, the public have clammored for them all to be lumped into one barrel, and folks, there's no such thing as "one size fits all" in this subject area.

Politicians have made a lot of speeches, and proposed a lot of new "registry" bills to hopefully be enacted into law. These registries are not keeping children safe. Experts are beginning to come forth with reasons as to why this is costing a lot of money, and "not delivering the goods".

First of all, the largest percentage of molestation cases against children are perpetrated on them by FAMILY members, people they know, love, and trust. The amount of stranger abduction cases are in the single digits, percentage-wise. In other words, it's RARE. VERY rare. Right now it doesn't seem so because the media is having a hey day with cases like that of poor little Carlie Brucia, Jessica Lunsford, etc. They keep it in the headlines for as long as they can because it increases tv ratings, and it definitely helps to sell newspapers. The politicians jump on it because it helps them get re-elected.

Experts are calling the registries "feel good laws". Politicians love those, because it makes their constituents all warm and fuzzy feeling in their hearts, and they get re-elected with little to no effort.

Sorry I got on my bandwagon, but this is a subject that interests me. I worked in this field, in corrections for many years, and I've spent a lot of classroom hours learning about sex offenders, so that I could work with them effectively.

It angers me, truthfully, when I see the out and out lies, and exaggerations being perpetrated on the unsuspecting public.

Let me tell you something about these sex offender registries...then I'll get down of my soapbox and crawl back into my corner, lol:

1. They are not updated on any kind of regular basis. It's haphazardly done.

That's why Joseph Smith (Carlie Brucia) and Joseph Duncan (Shasta, the Idaho case) were out there stalking victims. When a sex offender is released from prison, whether it be at the end of their full sentence or on parole, they are supposed to go straight to the authorities in the town they are going to reside in and register. There is a time frame with which they are supposed to comply.

What happens if they don't comply? Nothing. Why? Because the Department of Corrections doesn't bother to make sure the authorities are notified. They may send an email, they may even send a fax, but if it gets missed, it just gets missed. Anyone who does office work can tell you how easily that happens. They SHOULD send written notification, but that should be followed up with a PHONE CALL. Unfortunately, it isn't. That's what I mean by a "feel good law". Moms and Dads all over this country are feeling much better because this list is out there, and they think that is going to help them keep their children safe. If you depend on that list to do that, you could very well be in for a rude awakening.

2. The inaccuracy of the list has led to completely innocent people being hurt.

A sex offender used to live at said address, but moved. New tenant moves in, not knowing it WAS the address of an offender on the registry. Neighbors beat the living crap out of the new tenant, thinking it's a sex offender, and it isn't.

I could go on but this post is too long as it is.

How best to protect your child?

Be ever vigilant. Unfortunately, the days are gone where it was safe to
allow children to go, even in small groups, to the park to play by themselves. This is one constant that will never change. Lists will never be a substitute for the vigilance of the parent.

Talk to your children about this subject. It's uncomfortable, I know, but if you really want them to be safe, you have to do it. It's best to work with them and teach them what TO do, instead of what NOT to do. For instance, I watched the Joseph Smith trial on Court TV, and the commentators kept saying how Carlie Brucia had done everything right. WRONG. There is one thing she did, that she shouldn't have done, and it cost her her life. Instead of staying on the main thoroughfares, she took a shortcut through that car wash. My parents always taught me to stay on the main streets and NOT to take shortcuts...that sweet, innocent little girl was a tragic example of why.

Anyway, this is a subject that everyone should research on their own, especially if they have children.

If you google "sex addiction", it will take one to a whole array of informative sites on this subject.

I don't believe in the death penalty because I know of too many people who have been exhonerated and released from death row. Once that switch is pulled, or the needle plunged, an "oops" just isn't going to cut it.

 

[Sophia7]

Politicians have made a lot of speeches, and proposed a lot of new "registry" bills to hopefully be enacted into law. These registries are not keeping children safe. Experts are beginning to come forth with reasons as to why this is costing a lot of money, and "not delivering the goods".

First of all, the largest percentage of molestation cases against children are perpetrated on them by FAMILY members, people they know, love, and trust. The amount of stranger abduction cases are in the single digits, percentage-wise. In other words, it's RARE. VERY rare. Right now it doesn't seem so because the media is having a hey day with cases like that of poor little Carlie Brucia, Jessica Lunsford, etc. They keep it in the headlines for as long as they can because it increases tv ratings, and it definitely helps to sell newspapers. The politicians jump on it because it helps them get re-elected.

Experts are calling the registries "feel good laws". Politicians love those, because it makes their constituents all warm and fuzzy feeling in their hearts, and they get re-elected with little to no effort.

Sorry I got on my bandwagon, but this is a subject that interests me. I worked in this field, in corrections for many years, and I've spent a lot of classroom hours learning about sex offenders, so that I could work with them effectively.

It angers me, truthfully, when I see the out and out lies, and exaggerations being perpetrated on the unsuspecting public.

Let me tell you something about these sex offender registries...then I'll get down of my soapbox and crawl back into my corner, lol:

1. They are not updated on any kind of regular basis. It's haphazardly done.

That's why Joseph Smith (Carlie Brucia) and Joseph Duncan (Shasta, the Idaho case) were out there stalking victims. When a sex offender is released from prison, whether it be at the end of their full sentence or on parole, they are supposed to go straight to the authorities in the town they are going to reside in and register. There is a time frame with which they are supposed to comply.

What happens if they don't comply? Nothing. Why? Because the Department of Corrections doesn't bother to make sure the authorities are notified. They may send an email, they may even send a fax, but if it gets missed, it just gets missed. Anyone who does office work can tell you how easily that happens. They SHOULD send written notification, but that should be followed up with a PHONE CALL. Unfortunately, it isn't. That's what I mean by a "feel good law". Moms and Dads all over this country are feeling much better because this list is out there, and they think that is going to help them keep their children safe. If you depend on that list to do that, you could very well be in for a rude awakening.

2. The inaccuracy of the list has led to completely innocent people being hurt.

A sex offender used to live at said address, but moved. New tenant moves in, not knowing it WAS the address of an offender on the registry. Neighbors beat the living crap out of the new tenant, thinking it's a sex offender, and it isn't.

I could go on but this post is too long as it is.

How best to protect your child?

Be ever vigilant. Unfortunately, the days are gone where it was safe to
allow children to go, even in small groups, to the park to play by themselves. This is one constant that will never change. Lists will never be a substitute for the vigilance of the parent.

Talk to your children about this subject. It's uncomfortable, I know, but if you really want them to be safe, you have to do it. It's best to work with them and teach them what TO do, instead of what NOT to do. For instance, I watched the Joseph Smith trial on Court TV, and the commentators kept saying how Carlie Brucia had done everything right. WRONG. There is one thing she did, that she shouldn't have done, and it cost her her life. Instead of staying on the main thoroughfares, she took a shortcut through that car wash. My parents always taught me to stay on the main streets and NOT to take shortcuts...that sweet, innocent little girl was a tragic example of why.

Anyway, this is a subject that everyone should research on their own, especially if they have children.

If you google "sex addiction", it will take one to a whole array of informative sites on this subject.

I don't believe in the death penalty because I know of too many people who have been exhonerated and released from death row. Once that switch is pulled, or the needle plunged, an "oops" just isn't going to cut it.

Thanks for your comments, Sassy. I agree, and besides all of that, there are plenty of sex offenders who have not been caught or convicted and thus are not on any lists. Lists are helpful for only a couple of reasons that I can see. One is particularly important in my husband's job as a pastor. We know of a registered convicted sex offender who is doing some Bible studies by correspondence. If he were ever to actually come to church, I would feel obligated to take extra measures to ensure the safety of our children and other children in the church. We also know another convicted sex offender who is a member of another Adventist church in the area.

One thing I noticed on the sex offender registry list online for my state is that in the cases that include details, most of the offenders were either family members or friends of the family who had access to the children (who were babysitting or even in some cases staying with the victims' families). I don't think any healthy family would allow a grown man to sleep in the same room with their children (as happened in several instances). Most sex offenders seem to prey on dysfunctional families that they can take advantage of and gain access to the children. Sexual abuse also happens frequently in churches, whether perpetrated by adult youth leaders or by older children against younger children who are left unsupervised, and it's something that churches used to try to cover up and not talk about although, fortunately, I think things are changing somewhat.

All of this just strengthens my determination to protect my children. We hardly ever even leave them with babysitters because it's hard to know whom you can really trust. I would never let them play in the back yard by themselves (of course, they are very young anyway to do that) or walk to school as I did when I was a kid, even though we live in a small town. I don't know if the media have hyped up the frequency of stranger abductions or if the threat is really greater these days, but I wouldn't take the risk of finding out the hard way.

 

[Windmill]

I'd like to know, is there anywhere in the bible that outlines the punishments we should be giving crinimals today?

 

[ThirdAngel]

Hello, I'm new here. I logged on before I knew there was a SDA subforum. It was a nice surprise to find you all.

I do believe in the death penalty (for murder). The New Testament gives authority to the government to execute judgment in such matters.

“For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil, …for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Romans 13:3-4
(Note that the SWORD would not be used for anything other than killing)

“Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether it be to the king, as supreme, or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by Him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.” 1 Peter 2:13, 14

If you take these texts and combine them with the OT command to execute murderers, it seems pretty certain that the death penalty IS justified from the bible.

He who strikes a man (intentionally) so that he dies shall surely be put to death. Exodus 21:12

However, I do not think a drug offense such as the one described above would be justified in the eyes of God, but we are subject to the laws of the land in which we find ourselves.

 

[Cliff2]

Hello, I'm new here. I logged on before I knew there was a SDA subforum. It was a nice surprise to find you all.

I do believe in the death penalty (for murder). The New Testament gives authority to the government to execute judgment in such matters.

“For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil, …for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Romans 13:3-4
(Note that the SWORD would not be used for anything other than killing)

“Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether it be to the king, as supreme, or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by Him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.” 1 Peter 2:13, 14

If you take these texts and combine them with the OT command to execute murderers, it seems pretty certain that the death penalty IS justified from the bible.

He who strikes a man (intentionally) so that he dies shall surely be put to death. Exodus 21:12

However, I do not think a drug offense such as the one described above would be justified in the eyes of God, but we are subject to the laws of the land in which we find ourselves.

Welcome to the Forum here.

Interesting position that you have taken.

Believing in execution is one thing , would you be prepared to actuall carry it out.

I could not, even though at times I think a person does deserve to be executed I could never be the person to do it.

Perhaps for that reason I would not vote for it. If I will not do it then I cannot expect another to do it for me.

Just my thoughts bro.

 

[ThirdAngel]

Thanks for the welcome. This seems to be a good site.

No, I have to admit that I could not do it either. I could not kill anyone, although God did command followers of His in the OT to kill (even children). Many people criticize Christians and Jews for worshiping a God who would expect such things.

I don't think that God would expect us to take on such a responsibility, although He does use nations and governments to execute His justice from time to time. He used the allied armies to put an end to Nazism and Imperial Japan. That required soldiers to kill others, but God would not expect Christians to do the killing. In the same way, God used pagan Babylon to execute judgment on many nations (including apostate Israel), but He never would have expected an Israelite to participate in the pillaging and plundering.

I think we have to realize that God's ways are higher than ours. We may not always understand His ways, but He has not been silent on these issues. He always uses men and nations to counter evil that arises.

 

[Gods_Desert_Man]

Well as adventist we have to relize that we are in a sinking sand.How can yo clame too put anyone to death whern the spiirt of phrophiecies tell us that we are going to be put to death for saturday worship.Do we all forget that what you wish on on a nother person will eventually be put on your head.The law is going to change whoevery doest abide by the mark of the beast and we all know what that is we will be put too death.Is this our fate to be critized for breaking the law of man when where following the law of God.You might say its the law lets stone him but look at yourselfs and be prepared to be stoned for Jesus Christ who died for a higher purpose.We need too put out desecration from the synagoge and be sealed with the elect.

 

[SassySDA]

Hello, I'm new here. I logged on before I knew there was a SDA subforum. It was a nice surprise to find you all.

I do believe in the death penalty (for murder). The New Testament gives authority to the government to execute judgment in such matters.

“For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil, …for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Romans 13:3-4
(Note that the SWORD would not be used for anything other than killing)

“Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether it be to the king, as supreme, or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by Him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.” 1 Peter 2:13, 14

If you take these texts and combine them with the OT command to execute murderers, it seems pretty certain that the death penalty IS justified from the bible.

He who strikes a man (intentionally) so that he dies shall surely be put to death. Exodus 21:12

However, I do not think a drug offense such as the one described above would be justified in the eyes of God, but we are subject to the laws of the land in which we find ourselves.

Then how do we explain God's assertion that "we love one another" and that "we turn the other cheek", that "we FORGIVE one another"?

Murder is murder, state sanctioned or not. If it weren't, the word HOMICIDE would not be put on the executed's death certificate...but it is.

We do absolutely NO GOOD, nothing POSITIVE at all comes from an execution. All that really happens is that we lower ourselves to the same level of the person we are killing. There are some who believe that this execution actually gives closure to the victim's families. I think they would be surprised to find out that that just isn't so. As a victim of violence myself, I can tell you that there IS no closure without forgiveness. Had I not forgiven the perpetrator of this evil upon my life, I would never have been able to move on. I would never have been able to live with myself if I had someone's death, NO MATTER THE REASON, on my conscience.

The Lord said, "let vengeance be thine", and I am completely happy and satisfied to let Him have it.

We must also remember that Jesus said, "if ye love me, keep my commandments"...and..."if ye break the LEAST one ye break them ALL". He who is without sin, push the plunger or flip the switch....

Not me, ladies and gentlemen, I am not without sin, and I don't know of anyone who is.

 

[YeshuamySalvation]

Then how do we explain God's assertion that "we love one another" and that "we turn the other cheek", that "we FORGIVE one another"?

Murder is murder, state sanctioned or not. If it weren't, the word HOMICIDE would not be put on the executed's death certificate...but it is.

We do absolutely NO GOOD, nothing POSITIVE at all comes from an execution. All that really happens is that we lower ourselves to the same level of the person we are killing. There are some who believe that this execution actually gives closure to the victim's families. I think they would be surprised to find out that that just isn't so. As a victim of violence myself, I can tell you that there IS no closure without forgiveness. Had I not forgiven the perpetrator of this evil upon my life, I would never have been able to move on. I would never have been able to live with myself if I had someone's death, NO MATTER THE REASON, on my conscience.

The Lord said, "let vengeance be thine", and I am completely happy and satisfied to let Him have it.

We must also remember that Jesus said, "if ye love me, keep my commandments"...and..."if ye break the LEAST one ye break them ALL". He who is without sin, push the plunger or flip the switch....

Not me, ladies and gentlemen, I am not without sin, and I don't know of anyone who is.

Execellent post Sassy. I know none of us are without sin you are right. But ive spoke to some people that think they can reach such a state were they can be found without sin, sinless.
Regardless wonderful post..


Blessings..

 

[BondGirl]

....I don't believe in the death penalty because I know of too many people who have been exhonerated and released from death row. Once that switch is pulled, or the needle plunged, an "oops" just isn't going to cut it.

DEAD on Pernt!

 

[christian78]

The Death Penalty is a little too harsh for me.But you can't ask me cause life in prison is harsh for me.I agree this is too much but what can we do about it?

 

[Sophia7]

Then how do we explain God's assertion that "we love one another" and that "we turn the other cheek", that "we FORGIVE one another"?

Jesus' commandments to love and to forgive one another and to turn the other cheek relate to how we should treat each other personally, not to how the government should punish those who transgress the law.

Romans 13 addresses the issue of the government's power to punish those who do wrong:

1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

Notice that verse 4 states that the government is God's "agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." The government has a moral responsibility, given by God, to exact judgment. God has set up governments, even secular governments, for a moral purpose–-to commend those who do right and to punish those who do wrong. The reason for this is that if people are allowed to continually do wrong, their consciences become "seared as with a hot iron" (1 Timothy 4:2). In Ephesians 4:18-19, Paul describes those who have completely given themselves over to doing what is wrong:

They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.

The more people sin, the harder it is for their consciences to convict them and the harder it is for them to accept Christ. That's why, as Christians, with a mission to tell others about Jesus, we should do everything we can to keep our government as close to God's ideal as possible so that people's minds are not unnecessarily clouded by their immoral lifestyles.

From a purely secular, utilitarian standpoint, making moral (not religious) laws and punishing those who transgress them preserves an orderly society, guards against anarchy, and protects society at large from those who would harm them. Whether the governing authorities acknowledge God or not, it makes sense for them to enact and enforce laws. God leaves it up to them to determine the laws and the penalties for breaking them. And as long as those laws do not infringe on our religious freedom, we as Christians are commanded to accept their authority to punish those who do wrong and to obey them.

As far as whether a country should execute those who commit heinous crimes like murder, the Bible is not opposed to the death penalty. Sure, Jesus saved a woman from being stoned by telling those who were without sin to cast the first stone. However, God was the one who had commanded people in the first place to kill those who committed certain sins. Those executions would have been carried out by sinners, too, since no one is without sin. If our governments have instituted capital punishment, I do not believe that we have any biblical justification to oppose it. I believe that in light of Romans 13, we should go along with whatever our legislators have decided on this.

Interestingly, Romans 13 directly follows Romans 12's counsel about how to treat our enemies:

Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.

17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

In this passage, Paul addresses how we as individuals should treat people when they sin against us, not how the government should treat them. As verse 19 says, we are not God's avengers. However, according to Romans 13, the government is. Therefore, while we as Christians should love our enemies just as God does and be kind to them, still they are subject to God's judgment for what they have done, and on a temporal level the government serves God in that purpose (whether it is aware of this fact or not). We are commanded to forgive those who sin against us; the government is not.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Hi Everyone--with all the talk of God's allowing for capitol punishment--something very important has been overlooked here. God's statute was very clear--in order to put a person to death, the thing had to be established by 2 or more EYE witnesses OR the matter was to be so thoroughly investigated as to leave not one shred of doubt. Our corrupt and injust "justice" system today REGULARLY puts innocent people in prison for life AND have killed thousands of innocents in thier death chambers. Knowing what I know about dirty underhanded judges and prosecutors today--I take a FIRM STAND against the death pentaly--PERIOD!!

One other thing to consider, prisons today are BIG BUSINESS and as such--those profiting from this wants those prisons FULL. Think about it folks--America now has more of it's citizens incarcerated than any other country on earth!!! TWO MILLION Americans in jails and prisons!! And guess who's paying the bill?? That's right--YOU and me! Why are there so many in there?? Are American's more lawless than any other nation? Hardly--so why so many incarcerated?? Remember folks--"It's ALWAYS ALL about the MONEY"!!!! We hear all this hype about the dreaded "child molesters"--but how rampant is it really?? I was watching a program just yesterday about this subject and the "expert" on the program told the audience that over 3 MILLION cases of abuse and molesation are reported each year! But what he conveniently "forgot" to tell was that over 1/2 of those cases are found to be totally UNFOUNDED by the authorities. Virtually all of those came from disgruntled ex-wives and girlfriends trying to "get back" at perceived wrong doing of the part of the man. So you see how these "experts" and the media together have created another Salem witch hunt against innocent men and women. And the number one worst person perpetrating this on the GULLIBLE American public is Oprah Winfrey!! She has given out so much garbage on this topic over the past twenty years that SHE should be taken put off the air!

Well--I have a ton of things to say about this topic-but suffice it to say--that in todays witch hunt climate created and perpetrated by those who make money from the flesh of our loved ones--it would behoove all of us to cling to the principles of our God-given Constitution and Bill of Rights and go about fighting for a FREE America. Because as Adventists--we of ALL people should be aware of and heed the warning of EGW, when she tells us that when the time comes that the "commandment keeping people of God will receive neither JUSTICE NOR MERCY", by the courts of this land. The wicked powers that be are right now flexing their corrupt muscles against innocent people just to see how far the American people can be pushed. And to their great surprise and pleasure--they see it is very far--Americans are asleep at the wheel. We have forgotten that "eternal vigilance" is the price of freedom and the cost of keeping those power hungry wolves from our door. But alas!! The wolves are "in da house"!