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Excommunication

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rejectreality

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Hello to all :wave:

I have just been thinking about excommunication a bit and was wandering:
Do people still believe in excommunication? If so, are there any verses in the bible that give man the power to deny others heaven?
I for one don't believe in excommunication but would appreciate any feedback.
Thank you, God bless
 

Philip

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rejectreality said:
I have just been thinking about excommunication a bit and was wandering:
Do people still believe in excommunication? If so, are there any verses in the bible that give man the power to deny others heaven?

Excommunication ia not 'denying others heaven'. It is forbidding them from receiving the Eucharist/Lord's Supper. The pratice is based in Scripture (Matthew 18:15-17). If you prefer, you can call it 'breaking fellowship'.
 
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JohnJones

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(1 Cor 5 NKJV) "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles; that a man has his father's wife! {2} And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. {3} For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. {4} In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, {5} deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. {6} Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? {7} Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. {8} Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. {9} I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. {10} Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. {11} But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; not even to eat with such a person. {12} For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? {13} But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person.""

(1 Tim 1:19-20 KJV) "Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: {20} Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

(2 Th 3:6 NKJV) "But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us."

Sometimes rather than excommunication its called disfellowship or withdrawal. Notice in 1 Cor 5 how Paul says Christians are not to eat with a brother who is one of the things he mentions--if they cannot eat a common meal with such a person, how can they eat the Lord's Supper with them? That is what excommunication means "expelled from communion" because Christians cannot eat the Lord's Supper with a Christian who is in unrepentant sins of that sort as Paul mentions there.
 
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BeforeThereWas

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There was some good response to the question about excommunication. The left foot of fellowship to those who choose to live on in sin is biblical, so long as the process is followed.

Also, receiving the "eucharist," "Lord's supper" or whatever else one wishes to call it, carries no more weight to it, within the confines of religious ceremony and priests, for example, than it does with believing hobos living under one of our local bridges partaking of bread and wine in sober reflection upon Christ, His body, and what He accomplished for them. The over religious-ization of that observance is purely man-made, so the foolish notion that only a priest can administer it to any greater degree of legitimacy is nothing but pure, ecclesiastical fantasy. I realize that most would agree with this, and that this may ruffle the feathers of some, but the Bible gives no indication that communion is something that can only be administered within an institutionally organized, religious ceremony by a specially trained man who wears funny, long, flowing robe, and a wierd cap on his head.

Organized religion continues to be an ongoing antithesis to the example Christ lived and spoke about before the eyes of mankind, and recorded within the pages of the Bible. The riches and sometimes downright gaudiness and pomp of organized religion will perish with the very world that created it.

May the Lord be praised for the simplicity that He lived among us, that even the poorest of the poor may find dignity, and shine more brightly in the eternals than the white paint of our plush, glittery, overpriced mausoleums sitting upon prime, overpriced real estate.

BTW
 
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sojourner

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BeforeThereWas,

The over religious-ization of that observance is purely man-made, so the foolish notion that only a priest can administer it to any greater degree of legitimacy is nothing but pure, ecclesiastical fantasy.

That observance was done for almost 30 years before Paul even wrote about it. In writing about it he wrote what it meant in practice for the previous 30 years.
Also, we are not speaking of organized religion here. It is the very Body of Christ. That power was given to the Apostles and they by "laying on of hands" have passed that authority to succeeding bishops.
As well, your view is the very view condemned by Paul in his day. It was called Gnosticism.

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One Church with Christ as Head.

In regard to hobos, there is nothing wrong with their contemplating but it is simply just another meal. It is not the Body of Christ, the Eucharist, which has the power unto salvation.
 
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ScottBot

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rejectreality said:
Hello to all :wave:

I have just been thinking about excommunication a bit and was wandering:
Do people still believe in excommunication? If so, are there any verses in the bible that give man the power to deny others heaven?
I for one don't believe in excommunication but would appreciate any feedback.
Thank you, God bless
Based on Catholic (and Orthodox I believe) understanding of excommunication, the Church is just officially recognizing that the member himself has severed communion with the Church. The Church is not denying anyone heaven, no institution in the world has that power. It is just simply recognizing that the member no longer desires to be associated with the faith community by their own actions.
 
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MrJim

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Within the traditional Anabaptist churches there is the infamous "ban". If after following the steps in dealing with a person in sin (taught in scripture) they refuse to stop they are put out of the church. It is considered an act of love, and it is the original "tough love".

These days things like excom/ban aren't as effective because if you don't like what I do I'll just go to the church down the road and they'll "accept" me as I am.
 
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Paleoconservatarian

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rejectreality said:
Do people still believe in excommunication?

Yes. Any good church can and should excommunicate those members who are in need of such discipline.

If so, are there any verses in the bible that give man the power to deny others heaven?

No man has denied anyone heaven. It is not within our power. Neither is this what the church purports to do. The purpose of excommunication is to rebuke, and to bring those who are under discipline back to a right state. It is an act of discipline designed to get him to reform in order to be admitted back into communion with the church. If he will not, he probably doesn't belong there anyway.
 
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Artos

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Our pastor quietly excommunicated a youth at one of our conferences (known only to the youth involved) because of the person's unwillingness to renounce occultic links. Did this by telling the youth that when Communion is celebrated, unless there is repentance (ie the ball is in the youth's court), the youth is not to take the Elements. The youth refrained from receiving the sacrament.
This was a few years ago. Now the youth is preparing for full time ministry. There was repentance, renunciation,deliverance....although it took several months to complete the process. God is good. Tough love worked....Continue to pray for the youth....(who isnt a youth no more...).
 
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saami

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{11} But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; not even to eat with such a person.

Those lists always make me nervous - because undoubtedly I find myself on them - COVETOUS - how does anyone in America with advertizing everyone not Covet? Idolatry - putting something before God, Reviling - I love talk radio! Drunkard - so many prescriptions... extortionist "Watch out world - if you cross me {America} I'll blow you to kingdom come - no there is extortion!

I guess I'm out...:sigh: wait! Jesus ate with people like me! Thank you Jesus!:)
 
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ebonyjane

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I know that the Jehovah's Witnesses practice ex-communication(ing). They believe that by recieving babtism at an knowledgable age, you know that your life is dedicated to serving Jehovah and spreading the truth. Therefor, when someone dis regards a rule or does somthing un christian in their eyes (ie: smoking, drug use, crime, etc.) they don't want this behavior to reflect on the rest of the congregation, so they decide to ex-communicate you.

You are still encouraged to come back, but no babtised JW may recieve you in their home untill you have been welcome back.

I think it's a tough-love theory that has been widley critisized. This does not mean you are going to hell, though, I don't think. That is a catholic guilt trip as far as I know. Only God himself can decide who enters and who goes to that hot lake.

much love,

EJSB
 
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