It should be repeated again so that we can all see just why there are so many versions of the truth. If the bible supports pretty much any interpretation you want, how can anyone seriously claim to know the truth?
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Mr Bungle
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Some people twist scripture by quoting out of context - chapter and verse numbers in the Bible have done more harm than good when you think about..
All this shows is that peoples interpretation of a text - scripture in this case, are fallible. Christians hold the view that the Bible is infallible, but that translations and interpretations are fallible.
For example, Muslims use Deuteronomy 18:15-18 and claim this is a passage that foretells the prophethood of Muhammad.
The JW's use a passage from Daniel 5 to support a fairly complex argument about Jesus returning to earth in 1918 as a spirit being.
Any individual who claims that their interpretation of the Bible is the truth is normally part of a cult or sect.
So I'd never say that I have the truth - I'd say the truth has me.....which is a different thing altogether.
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ianb321red
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So what you are saying is that every interpretation is incorrect
No. I think the point he's making is that every interpretation has the potential to be fallible unless it is weighed and tested against other interpretations.
This obviously isn't a simple thing to resolve. The church has never been in complete harmony about what their doctrines are - or at least, what the correct understanding of doctrines are.
This is why bible teaching and fellowship with other Christians is so important, and is also why Christians who don't go to church and don't have much contact with others Christians are more likely to reach incorrect understandings of scripture..
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ianb321red
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I only need to have a correct understanding of scripture from a salvation point of view - i.e. what do I actually need to understand from scripture which will allow me to respond to the gospel message accordingly.
I think I'm pretty clear of what this is.
The common areas of division/ disagreement over interpretation of scripture are normally on things on which salvation is not dependent on. For example:
Creation
Pre/post or amillennialism
Pre/ post/ mid tribulation rapture
Dispensationalism
Related areas of calvinism
Related areas of infant baptism
These are intramural differences, and for the most part our salvation is not dependent on holding a position on these either way..
There may be certain Bible passages tucked away somewhere that ultimately I may never study or fully understand, but since these are not salvation dependent then this is less important - or arguably even unimportant.
The central message and purpose of the Bible is what matters here - the gospel message of salvation and we should respond to it.
So it's when the ideas and beliefs which central to salvation are tampered with and distorted by JW's and such like is when the differences become so huge that they result in the formation of a sect, cult or completely new religion being formed.
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It's complete hypocrisy, they cannot show a united front when it comes to fundamental elements of their teaching/doctrines whatever you wish to call it. However, mention the fact that same sex marriage as a legality is just around the corner and they cry in unison.
It would appear that the demonisation of Christianity by the Jews and Romans all those years ago has been conveniently forgotten.
It's intriguing how the persecuted often end up being the persecutor.
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ianb321red
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YOU!
`The church has never been in complete harmony about what their doctrines are - or at least, what the correct understanding of doctrines are.`
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ianb321red
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Yes but YOU added in the fundamental part, not me!
If you re-read my post then you'll see the point I made that differences over the "fundamentals" are what result in breakaway (Christian) sects/ cults..
The fundamentals are orthodox. If these are denied then quite simply it's not Christianity; it's something else.
What you've quoted above is referring to all doctrines - not just the fundamental ones. This is completely separate point because as I said some of these doctrines are peripheral - such as some of the ones I listed.
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You just proved my argument.
What you are suggesting is that only the fundamentalist can call himself Christian. Have you any idea how insulting that must be to the other 90%.
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ianb321red
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I didn't say that. Again (with respect) I think you need to read my posts more carefully.
I said that disagreements over non fundamental doctrines (I've previously suggested what they might be) that are not intrinsic to salvation, are simply intramural disagreements..
Intramural disagreements are in the grand scheme of things quite minor, and certainly do not define or determine whether someone is a Christian or not. So disagreements over interpretations of Revelation or issues relating to Calvinism are the most obvious examples.
What I am saying is that when there a disagreement over the requirement (in terms of belief) for salvation, then this IS a fundamental dividing point over whether something is true Christianity or not.
I hope this is now clear?
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Since I seem to have started this mess, I'll say once again that I do not claim that there are many ways to heaven. As John 14:6 says, Jesus is the only way to heaven.
I think Saved has inclusivism confused with pluralism. Pluralists often say that there are many equally valid paths to salvation. I reject this. There is only one ultimate Truth, who I believe is Christ Jesus. I do believe, however, that all truth, wherever it may be found, ultimately comes from one Source.
I think Saved has inclusivism confused with pluralism. Pluralists often say that there are many equally valid paths to salvation. I reject this. There is only one ultimate Truth, who I believe is Christ Jesus. I do believe, however, that all truth, wherever it may be found, ultimately comes from one Source.
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