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Exasperation is not too strong a word!

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Maccie

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I am reading an excellent book "Learning to Dance" by Michael Mayne. No, not slow,slow, quick quick, slow! Mayne is a highly respected Anglican Vicar and Dean of Westminster. He encourages us to see God's hand in everything.

In writing about the Cosmos, he quotes the cosmologist, Paul Davies, and says:

"It is hard to resist the impression of something.....possessing an overview of the entire coismos at the instant of its creation, and manipulatoing all the causally disconnected parts to go bang with almost the same vigour at the same time, and yet not so exactly co-ordinated as to preclude the small-scale, slight irregularities that eventually formed the galaxies and us"

Elsewhere he says Paul Davies writes:

"I belong to a group of scientists who do not subscribe to a conventional religion but nevertheless deny that the universe is a purposeless accident..... There must be a deeper level of explanation. Whether one wishes to call that deeper level 'God' is a matter of tase and definition"

Mayne then goes on

Such remarkable fine tuning speaks of more than a mindless accident: it speaks of a Creator; and moreover, one whose delicate workmanship becomes the more apparent the more astronomers, biochemists, molecular biologists and geneticists unveil the timescale n which that Creator works. All this to produce a human baby, let alone a Mozart. Looking up at the heavens, looking back in time, and then turning to look within, it takes a poet to pinpoint the mystery of which science can only speak a part:

For today let's pause
At my first groping after the First Cause,
Which led me to acknolwedge (groping still)
That if what once was called primeval slime
(In current jargon, pre-biotic soup)
Evolved in course of aeons to a group
Playing Beethoven, it needed more than time
And chance, it needed a creative will
To foster that emergence, and express
Amoeba as A Minor.

(Martyn Skinner, from Old Rectory)

Having read that, and the rest of his book, I simply cannot understand why YEC's should be so picky, and loud, over when and how the universe, and in particular our very minor planet, was created. All this insistence on genealogies, 6 days, the universe just looking old (or physics twisted to adapt) seems to be trying to put God in a tiny little box labelled "Creation as I see it" giving a sense of assurance that maybe we are not intended to have, and to get all the answers that I do not believe we are intended to find. God is mystery. How or why he created such a vast, ever-expanding universe is totally beyond me.

Did you know that there are 1600 galaxies in the universe for every person on the earth??? That is how vast it all is. Why then nit-pick every translated word of that wonderful, poetic and lyrical work - the first 11 chapters of Genesis - and shout so loudly that the only true God is in a little tiny box labelled YEC??

Can't you YEC's lift your eyes and stop worrying over inessentials?

Like I said, exasperation is not too strong a word!!
 

Non-ape Jase

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Maccie said:
Elsewhere he says Paul Davies writes:

"I belong to a group of scientists who do not subscribe to a conventional religion but nevertheless deny that the universe is a purposeless accident..... There must be a deeper level of explanation. Whether one wishes to call that deeper level 'God' is a matter of tase and definition"

Let us pray that he takes this feeling further.


Maccie said:
Having read that, and the rest of his book, I simply cannot understand why YEC's should be so picky, and loud, over when and how the universe, and in particular our very minor planet, was created.

Our very minor planet? Jesus shedded his blood for the inhabitants of this 'very minor planet' who were created in His image. Even from a purely scientific view this planet is not minor. It is the only planet science knows of that has life. That sounds unique to me.

Maccie said:
All this insistence on genealogies, 6 days,

Why are you suprised? What is the Bible to you? A book of wise sayings or the inerrant Word of God?

Maccie said:
the universe just looking old (or physics twisted to adapt)

To those who allow secular influences in.

Maccie said:
seems to be trying to put God in a tiny little box labelled "Creation as I see it" giving a sense of assurance that maybe we are not intended to have,

I'll always take the assurance that He is who He said He is, and did what He said He did over the musings of falliable humankind.

Maccie said:
and to get all the answers that I do not believe we are intended to find.

Then why are you 'looking' outside the Bible?

Maccie said:
God is mystery.

Not completely. He has revealed himself through His creation, His Word (via the Bible), and JESUS! He has not told us everything, but what he has is astounding.

Maccie said:
How or why he created such a vast, ever-expanding universe is totally beyond me.

How? Because he is God. Why? Because he is Love. Ever-expanding? That's one of those theories by falliable humankind. Personally, I don't think it is because His acts of Creation finished on day six.

Maccie said:
Did you know that there are 1600 galaxies in the universe for every person on the earth??? That is how vast it all is

No I did not. But how do you? It is beyond our means to accurately count how many people are on this planet. I mean a 100% error free number. We certainly do not have the means to know exactly how many galaxies are out there. It is an approximation, which all humanity can do. Approximations and estimations is what evolution is all about. God deals in absolutes.

Maccie said:
Why then nit-pick every translated word of that wonderful, poetic and lyrical work - the first 11 chapters of Genesis - and shout so loudly that the only true God is in a little tiny box labelled YEC??

Why must you pick it to pieces and add to it?

Maccie said:
Can't you YEC's lift your eyes and stop worrying over inessentials?

Lift our eyes from what? God's word? What exactly do you mean? The YEC movement is an answer to atheistic evolution which is completely contrary to God. What has this theory done to improve humanity? Have things gotten better since it became widely taught? It's natural (and taught) to try to correct brothers and sisters who try to tie this into God's Word.

Maccie said:
Like I said, exasperation is not too strong a word!!

Pray about why you are so exasperated. My sincerest best wishes to you.
 
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The Lady Kate

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Non-ape Jase said:
Our very minor planet? Jesus shedded his blood for the inhabitants of this 'very minor planet' who were created in His image. Even from a purely scientific view this planet is not minor. It is the only planet science knows of that has life. That sounds unique to me.

And since science doesn't claim to know everything, how many other planets out there have life?

(Unrelated question)And since Jesus died to save all of us, wouldn't that include life on other worlds?

As for the planet being not minor.... well, last I checked it was a pretty big universe... when we stare up at the stars, and witness only the tiniest fraction of God's creation, let's remember our humility, shall we?
 
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Non-ape Jase

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The Lady Kate said:
And since science doesn't claim to know everything, how many other planets out there have life?

And since science doesn't know everything, perhaps these so-called planets aren't planets at all. Here we have flawed humankind looking for life in the skies when there is life on Earth to be concerned about.


The Lady Kate said:
(Unrelated question)And since Jesus died to save all of us, wouldn't that include life on other worlds?

What life on what other worlds?

The Lady Kate said:
As for the planet being not minor.... well, last I checked it was a pretty big universe... when we stare up at the stars, and witness only the tiniest fraction of God's creation, let's remember our humility, shall we?

How is it not being humble by stating that Jesus died for us? Excuse me while I scream out my appreciation. Obviously, for God to go to such extrodinary lengths to redeem us, we must be special to him. For the Father to be seperated from his Son (even for an instant) is not a minor act for the minor inhabitants of a minor planet. No, indeed it is the ultimate act of love. And the ultimate act of love was done at and for the focus of God's creation.
 
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The Lady Kate

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Non-ape Jase said:
And since science doesn't know everything, perhaps these so-called planets aren't planets at all. Here we have flawed humankind looking for life in the skies when there is life on Earth to be concerned about.

I can think of eight other "so-called" planets off the top of my head.... and those are just the ones we know about... or are they just pretty lights God put in the sky?
Humans are curious creatures, with a desire to learn.... it's the way God made us.


What life on what other worlds?

The life that may be out there that we don't know about...



How is it not being humble by stating that Jesus died for us?

By thinking that Jesus died only for "us," whoever "us" might be. Jesus died for everyone's sins, including those we have not met yet...

Excuse me while I scream out my appreciation. Obviously, for God to go to such extrodinary lengths to redeem us, we must be special to him.

everyone is special to God. We are all His children. God went to extraordinary lengths to redeem us all...


For the Father to be seperated from his Son (even for an instant) is not a minor act for the minor inhabitants of a minor planet. No, indeed it is the ultimate act of love. And the ultimate act of love was done at and for the focus of God's creation.

Exactly.... God's entire creation, not the the minute fraction of it we just so happen to live on...
 
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Non-ape Jase

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The Lady Kate said:
By thinking that Jesus died only for "us," whoever "us" might be. Jesus died for everyone's sins, including those we have not met yet...[/color][/font]
Please, please tell me you are not referring to alien life here.
 
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GaelSong

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If there is life 'out there' then it is 'alien' to us. Already sientists have discovered over one hundred planets and they are relatively close to us. Just imagine what is out there. And yes I do believe that God would have a personal relationship with any alien spiecies out there, through Jesus or however He sees fit.
 
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The Lady Kate

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merri said:
If there is life 'out there' then it is 'alien' to us. Already sientists have discovered over one hundred planets and they are relatively close to us. Just imagine what is out there. And yes I do believe that God would have a personal relationship with any alien spiecies out there, through Jesus or however He sees fit.

And there's the catch: If not though Jesus, then how?
 
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