ex-gay, no way.

[matthewgar]

Found this book on vacation, wondering if others have read it or any thoughts, it's from a Christian point of view, from someone that got through the ex-gay groups and what he saw as abuse, and his story along with others, it's got a Christian slant on it, but he's very much against the damage he sees that the ex-gay groups cause. For those that think it's not wrong to be gay, or those that think it is, might be worth checking out and reading his thoughts on it.

Posted it here since seems to come up alot, and if these groups do more harm then good, and are abusive, is it moral to have them even if you think they can some times do good?

 

[Wayte]

Not a chance in the world are they moral. Telling somebody that something about them, something they can do nothing to help, and that honestly doesn't hurt anybody is evil is pretty high on the list of "stuff that's jerkish to do."

 

[theblackcat]

I have never read the book, though I might now, but I have known a few people who went through "ex-gay" seminars or therapies and all but one seems significantly worse for wear. Most complain they were taunted or abused, threatened in some way or made to feel inferior because of their sexual desires and past relationships. Any time you tell a person their involuntary feelings or desires are evil and make them bad people, you're doing them a disservice. It seems like a lot of these programmes try to badger people into compliance with the founder's values, which is basically nothing more than asking them to pretend to be straight, or to confine themselves to opposite-sex partners if they are bi-sexual. At most, these kinds of programmes should help attendees recognise that while desires are normally involuntary, how we choose to act on them is up to us. Gay, straight or whatever, a person can choose what kind of partners they are with, what acts they perform and how much protection they use against STIs. If a person has religious beliefs that must be reconciled with their sexuality, a programme should be able to help them define a safe area to be themselves while continuing their worship. Instead, it seems like these programmes urge people to deny who they are.

 

[nolongerhome]

The number of people who started these organisation who have either renounced what they were doing or simply been revealed to be complete frauds provides plenty of evidence for the moral bankruptcy of these organisations.

 

[Evenstar253]

This site is extremely telling: Home - Beyond Ex-Gay

 

[Autumnleaf]

Maybe some would consider anal sex to be a form of abuse.

 

[Skaloop]

Maybe some would consider anal sex to be a form of abuse.

Maybe some would. They'd be wrong, but maybe they would anyway.

But what does that have to do with becoming ex-gay, or even with homosexuality at all? Heterosexuals have anal sex, and lots of gay people don't.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Maybe some would. They'd be wrong, but maybe they would anyway.

I'm sure they would say they are right and people who disagree with them are wrong.

But what does that have to do with becoming ex-gay, or even with homosexuality at all? Heterosexuals have anal sex, and lots of gay people don't.

Different people see abuse differently. To some, it is not abusive to engage in sexual practices known to spread deadly diseases. To others it is. How does society decide who is right and who is wrong?

 

[Skaloop]

I'm sure they would say they are right and people who disagree with them are wrong.



Different people see abuse differently. To some, it is not abusive to engage in sexual practices known to spread deadly diseases. To others it is. How does society decide who is right and who is wrong?

It doesn't. In those sorts of cases, it's up to the individual(s) involved.

Also, all sexual practices are known to spread deadly disease. So which ones are abusive?

 

[dinonum]

Found this book on vacation, wondering if others have read it or any thoughts, it's from a Christian point of view, from someone that got through the ex-gay groups and what he saw as abuse, and his story along with others, it's got a Christian slant on it, but he's very much against the damage he sees that the ex-gay groups cause. For those that think it's not wrong to be gay, or those that think it is, might be worth checking out and reading his thoughts on it.

Posted it here since seems to come up alot, and if these groups do more harm then good, and are abusive, is it moral to have them even if you think they can some times do good?

I remember reading about a man who went to multiple groups who intended on changing his orientation, he spoke of awkward situations where the men would re-enact father/son situations and the majority of the time, he experienced men who were more turned on by the situation. Much of what the groups do is guilt the homosexual, which changes nothing and is only destructive.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I remember reading about a man who went to multiple groups who intended on changing his orientation, he spoke of awkward situations where the men would re-enact father/son situations and the majority of the time, he experienced men who were more turned on by the situation. Much of what the groups do is guilt the homosexual, which changes nothing and is only destructive.

Is guilt into living how the Bible says to worse than no guilt and engaging in sin?

 

[dinonum]

Is guilt into living how the Bible says to worse than no guilt and engaging in sin?

Guilt doesn't change a biological difference. One should come to the Lord because they want to, not because they have been manipulated into it.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Guilt doesn't change a biological difference. One should come to the Lord because they want to, not because they have been manipulated into it.

You're not a fan of fake it til you make it?

 

[dinonum]

Obviously.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Obviously.

Do you have the slightest idea of how empty the churches would be if society agreed with you?

 

[Wayte]

Do you have the slightest idea of how empty the churches would be if society agreed with you?

That may be more a sign of brken Churches than of broken people.