"Ex-Christians"

Lokisdottir · Dec 12, 2004

jlujan69 said:
The result is a change in heart readily apparent to that person. His outlook and priorities change for the better and he tends to drop bad habits and take up good ones. Before long, this conversion is apparent to others.

Funny you should put it that way. That is exactly what happened when I converted to Asatru.

By the way, happy birthday!

Anyway, according to what certain people here are saying, it is possible for somebody to follow the Christian path, trying her best to completely submit to the will of Jesus, trying her hardest to accept His word, and still never be truly Christian. This means that despite one's best efforts to accept Jesus into her heart, there's a chance it will never happen.

"Well, if that's the case," you're getting ready to say, "She probably wasn't really trying." Well, you're wrong, because it's myself I'm describing (big surprise there, I'm sure), and I did try. I tried my very hardest to be a good Christian, and it didn't work out.

thirsty · Dec 12, 2004

Illuminatus said:
I was born into a Christian family, and never gave a second thought to any other religions.

It is all about relationship with Christ as Lord and Saviour,not religion.

CrownCaster · Dec 12, 2004

Lokisdottir said:
Funny you should put it that way. That is exactly what happened when I converted to Asatru.

By the way, happy birthday!

Anyway, according to what certain people here are saying, it is possible for somebody to follow the Christian path, trying her best to completely submit to the will of Jesus, trying her hardest to accept His word, and still never be truly Christian. This means that despite one's best efforts to accept Jesus into her heart, there's a chance it will never happen.

"Well, if that's the case," you're getting ready to say, "She probably wasn't really trying." Well, you're wrong, because it's myself I'm describing (big surprise there, I'm sure), and I did try. I tried my very hardest to be a good Christian, and it didn't work out.

No, the problem is that the person is trying to be a Christian on their own merits instead of inviting Jesus to take care of it. It is a gift, not something that is earned.

jlujan69 · Dec 12, 2004

Lokisdottir said:
Funny you should put it that way. That is exactly what happened when I converted to Asatru.

By the way, happy birthday!

Anyway, according to what certain people here are saying, it is possible for somebody to follow the Christian path, trying her best to completely submit to the will of Jesus, trying her hardest to accept His word, and still never be truly Christian. This means that despite one's best efforts to accept Jesus into her heart, there's a chance it will never happen.

"Well, if that's the case," you're getting ready to say, "She probably wasn't really trying." Well, you're wrong, because it's myself I'm describing (big surprise there, I'm sure), and I did try. I tried my very hardest to be a good Christian, and it didn't work out.

Thanks for the greeting. Now, I'm not going to say that you didn't have a desire to follow Christ. You probably did. There's a word in your post that stands out to me: effort. Were you ever told that salvation is really apart from our own efforts? As you hear the Word, God's Holy Spirit begins to work on your heart. As you grow more and more accepting of it, He shows you who you really are and Who He really is. You begin to feel convicted in your heart that something is wrong and needs fixing. After some time, if you continually accept these convictions, then you're brought to a crisis point in your life where you can then choose to accept Him at His word and promises. If you choose to, then you're converted. If you know this already, then does this describe what happened to you when you were seeking Christ? This is a brief summary of the conversion "process". Naturally, denominations have their own "churchy" way of explaining it. So do I, I suppose.

CrownCaster · Dec 12, 2004

Lokisdottir said:
Funny you should put it that way. That is exactly what happened when I converted to Asatru.

I will be the first to tell you that the enemy is going to reel back and let life go peachy when you are following one of his religions. That does not matter though. This life is short. What is to come is not.

Lokisdottir · Dec 12, 2004

jlujan69 said:
Thanks for the greeting. Now, I'm not going to say that you didn't have a desire to follow Christ. You probably did. There's a word in your post that stands out to me: effort. Were you ever told that salvation is really apart from our own efforts? As you hear the Word, God's Holy Spirit begins to work on your heart. As you grow more and more accepting of it, He shows you who you really are and Who He really is. You begin to feel convicted in your heart that something is wrong and needs fixing. After some time, if you continually accept these convictions, then you're brought to a crisis point in your life where you can then choose to accept Him at His word and promises. If you choose to, then you're converted. If you know this already, then does this describe what happened to you when you were seeking Christ? This is a brief summary of the conversion "process". Naturally, denominations have their own "churchy" way of explaining it. So do I, I suppose.

No, that never happened to me. The question remaining is, why not? Why does this happen for some people and not for others?

CrownCaster said:
I will be the first to tell you that the enemy is going to reel back and let life go peachy when you are following one of his religions. That does not matter though. This life is short. What is to come is not.

Oh, I never said it was easy. Not by a long shot. More than anything, Asatru teaches that you reap what you sow. The Gods are there to help you, but in the end, it's you who carries the weight of responsibility. I've worked harder and accomplished more as an Asatruar than ever before in my life.

CrownCaster · Dec 12, 2004

Lokisdottir said:
Oh, I never said it was easy. Not by a long shot. More than anything, Asatru teaches that you reap what you sow. The Gods are there to help you, but in the end, it's you who carries the weight of responsibility. I've worked harder and accomplished more as an Asatruar than ever before in my life.

But it will be of no use to you when you kneel before Jesus. And you will kneel before Him. ALL knees will bow and ALL tongues will confess that He is Lord. But if you are doing it for the first time at your judgment it will be for nothing. thor, frigg, odin, and loki will be of no use to you at that time.

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win · Dec 12, 2004

CrownCaster said:
But it will be of no use to you when you kneel before Jesus. And you will kneel before Him. ALL knees will bow and ALL tongues will confess that He is Lord. But if you are doing it for the first time at your judgment it will be for nothing. thor, frigg, odin, and loki will be of no use to you at that time.

Eve_Sundancer · Dec 13, 2004

CrownCaster said:
But it will be of no use to you when you kneel before Jesus. And you will kneel before Him. ALL knees will bow and ALL tongues will confess that He is Lord. But if you are doing it for the first time at your judgment it will be for nothing. thor, frigg, odin, and loki will be of no use to you at that time.

The sticky problem with this view is that not everyone believes it. In fact, other people believe just as strongly in their beliefs as you do in your beliefs. And their beliefs are just as good and as valid as yours. People are different, and beliefs, personal views, all are different for each, even in the same denomination of a church. That's what makes the world a more interesting place, the wonderful conversation and sharing of views that occurs when people kindly interact without trying to convert others. Even if they believe whole-heartedly in their beliefs and their conversions.

Bevlina · Dec 13, 2004

And another thing is we cannot change the world. When Jesus walked the earth, He allowed people to have their own free choice. We are all to accept one another in love.
In peace and understanding. In respect.
And, when we can all be humble enough to do that - the world might know a little about the word "peace".

Lokisdottir · Dec 13, 2004

CrownCaster said:
But it will be of no use to you when you kneel before Jesus. And you will kneel before Him. ALL knees will bow and ALL tongues will confess that He is Lord. But if you are doing it for the first time at your judgment it will be for nothing. thor, frigg, odin, and loki will be of no use to you at that time.

Apparently, you're so determined not to show any sort of respect that you won't even capitalize the names of other people's Gods. The only point I see made is that you don't know how to use proper nouns.

I could do the same with the names of God and Jesus just to spite you, but that pesky respect thing gets in my way. I just have to remember that Jesus' teachings are worthy of respect, even if some of his followers aren't.

rahma · Dec 13, 2004

peaceful soul said:
How can we all be born submitting to God? We must first have a conscience toward God before we can submit. Submitting to God could mean any number of things; so we can not be born Muslims defacto. That is stretching the mind to think that way.

Muslims have a different concept of a human nature from christians. Our original nature is in submission to God. No original sin, nothing seperates us from God. Doesn't stretch my mind to believe that

CrownCaster · Dec 13, 2004

Lokisdottir said:
Apparently, you're so determined not to show any sort of respect that you won't even capitalize the names of other people's Gods. The only point I see made is that you don't know how to use proper nouns.

I could do the same with the names of God and Jesus just to spite you, but that pesky respect thing gets in my way. I just have to remember that Jesus' teachings are worthy of respect, even if some of his followers aren't.

No, I will not capitalize such names. And I don't really care if you do so for Jesus. I don't expect you to. It does not make a difference to me. My use of capitalization in a web based conversation is one of my ways of conveying respect and admiration for something. I do not respect or admire the asatru gods. Don't feel bad, I refuse to capitalize joe smith and brigham young either.

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win · Dec 13, 2004

CrownCaster said:
No, I will not capitalize such names. And I don't really care if you do so for Jesus. I don't expect you to. It does not make a difference to me. My use of capitalization in a web based conversation is one of my ways of conveying respect and admiration for something. I do not respect or admire the asatru gods. Don't feel bad, I refuse to capitalize joe smith and brigham young either.

But you should atleast care if he does it for jESUS.

CrownCaster · Dec 13, 2004

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
But you should atleast care if he does it for jESUS.

Nice try. I don't care. Sorry. He is not a Christian so I do not expect him to have some love and admiration for Jesus. If he does not belong to God then I cannot and do not expect him to see it this way. And your little effort to be disrespectful and teach me a lesson by capping ESUS while small casing j was an utter failure. I don't expect it from you either.

tulc · Dec 13, 2004

I do not respect or admire the asatru gods. Don't feel bad, I refuse to capitalize joe smith and brigham young either.

It isn't a matter of respecting their Gods, it's a matter of respecting the people who believe in them. Just a thought.
tulc(who noticed you capitalize CrownCaster)

saiful-Islam-Khattab · Dec 13, 2004

jlujan69 said:
Every so often, I'll read on these boards how someone was once a Christian and then embraced another faith. The person speaks of having "de-converted" from Christianity. Well, that got me to thinking about something. In order to "de-convert", one must first have been "converted" at some point in his life. Now, in Christianity at least, conversion results when one, in his heart, has acknowleged his own sinfulness, desires God's forgiveness, believes Jesus is Lord, and then verbally states this to God in prayer. The result is a change in heart readily apparent to that person. His outlook and priorities change for the better and he tends to drop bad habits and take up good ones. Before long, this conversion is apparent to others. In other words, people aren't Christian by inheritance or family tradition or otherwise by default. They are converted to Christianity in the aforementioned manner. My question is this, given this understanding of true conversion in Christianity, is there anyone who meets the above criteria and has then forsaken (or replaced) it for another faith? If so, I'm just wondering why?

Gary Miller (Abdul-Ahad Omar) shows how we can establish true faith by setting standards of truth. He illustrates a simple but effective method of finding out the right direction in our search for truth.

G.R. Miller is a mathematician and a theologian. He was active in Christian missionary work at a particular point of his life but he soon began to discover many inconsistencies in the Bible. In 1978, he happened to read the Qur'an expecting that it, too, would contain a mixture of truth and falsehood.

He discovered to his amazement that the message of the Qur'an was precisely the same as the essence of truth that he had distilled from the Bible. He became a Muslim and since then has been active in giving public presentations on Islam including radio and television appearances. He is also the author of several articles and publications about Islam.
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/xfsection/article.php?articleid=241
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/xfsection/article.php?articleid=1

Abdul Malik LeBlanc tells How He Discovered Islam Within the Pages of Bible

Taken from International Edition Voice of Islam

November 1998, Page 25

During my Christian days there were many verses in the Bible that made me question the religion I was following (Christianity). There was one particular verse, 1 Thessalonians 5:17 which says; "pray without ceasing," that lingered heavily in my mind. I often wondered how a person (Christian) was supposed to pray (be in a state of worship) without ceasing? Without any biblical or divine guidance, the only way I thought this to be possible was to always do good deeds and keep the remembrance of God on my tongue and in my heart.

However, I found this to be impossible to do as a human being. But when I was introduced to Islam in 1987, and began to read and learn more about this way of life, I found that Islam provided divine guidance both from God (Allah) and Prophet Muhammad (SAW) by which a person could pray (be in a state of worship) without ceasing, if it was the Will of God.

These are two people who were active wiith their christianity and yet reverted To islam from christianity
http://www.missionislam.com/comprel/bibleled.htm

The Seeker · Dec 13, 2004

CrownCaster said:
No, I will not capitalize such names. And I don't really care if you do so for Jesus. I don't expect you to. It does not make a difference to me. My use of capitalization in a web based conversation is one of my ways of conveying respect and admiration for something. I do not respect or admire the asatru gods. Don't feel bad, I refuse to capitalize joe smith and brigham young either.

Wow, you really are a nasty, arrogant individual, aren't you?

tulc · Dec 13, 2004

Wow, you really are a nasty, arrogant individual, aren't you?

Uhmm let's keep away from personal posts like this. OK?
tulc(not a mod, occasionally plays one on line though!)

The Seeker · Dec 13, 2004

tulc said:
Uhmm let's keep away from personal posts like this. OK?
tulc(not a mod, occasionally plays one on line though!)

I just happen to think that CrownCaster was being deliberately nasty and disrespectful and being very arogant when he was called on it.

I'll happily retract it if a mod asks me to though.

"Ex-Christians"

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