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Evolutionary debate

Evolution

  • Belive in evolution

  • Don't belive in evolution


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Hespera

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Let me guess... you want to see the actual fossils in your hands... and then??


he can detect in the bible information that shows the extra water from the 'flood' went to neptune to serve as a warning beacon to ward off inbound rogue angels. *

things that dont fit the crazy story, tho, are undetectable to that kind of mind.


*(i sent that one to a friend who was complaining about the falun gong, that they are crazy extremists)
 
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Split Rock

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And then he'll want to see the actual fossils transform into something else.

he can detect in the bible information that shows the extra water from the 'flood' went to neptune to serve as a warning beacon to ward off inbound rogue angels. *

things that dont fit the crazy story, tho, are undetectable to that kind of mind.

*(i sent that one to a friend who was complaining about the falun gong, that they are crazy extremists)
AVET's usual ploy when shown a drawing is to demand to see pics of the actual fossils (otherwise, its just fanciful artwork). When shown pics of the actual fossils he then claims they look fake to him. Funny coming from a guy who believes in satyrs and unicorns because the KJV1611 Bible mentions them.
 
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AV1611VET

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AVET's usual ploy when shown a drawing is to demand to see pics of the actual fossils (otherwise, its just fanciful artwork).
Citation please?

When have I ever asked to see the actual fossil?

You could show me a toothpick and I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
 
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Doveaman

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why say anything if you are just going to be ignorant, trite and silly?
What do you mean?

Reconstruction Theory is a viable theory. I actually do believe God did reconstruct the turtle in the beginning. Why must Evolution Theory be the only explanation? In the beginning God reconstructed the turtle. That's my theory.
 
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Split Rock

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Citation please?

When have I ever asked to see the actual fossil?

You could show me a toothpick and I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

You have often asked to see pictures of the actual fossils, after sneering at any drawings of them. In fact, you sneered at drawings in this very thread. The next predictable step, is for you to ask for the photos, then to claim they "look fake" or "look like plastic" to you.
 
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LifeToTheFullest!

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What do you mean?

Reconstruction Theory is a viable theory. I actually do believe God did reconstruct the turtle in the beginning. Why must Evolution Theory be the only explanation? In the beginning God reconstructed the turtle. That's my theory.
How many times did he reconstruct the elephant?
 
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Hespera

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What do you mean?

Reconstruction Theory is a viable theory. I actually do believe God did reconstruct the turtle in the beginning. Why must Evolution Theory be the only explanation? In the beginning God reconstructed the turtle. That's my theory.



Actually, you are still being just as trite and silly. A theory needs to have data. So you dont have a theory.

There is a 200 or so million year fossil record with an ongoing succession of minor changes over that time... adding up to some pretty big changes.

Now, if you want to say that "god" "reconstructed' the turtle thousands of times, with tiny incremental changes, fine. its kind of silly but go ahead.
All it would mean is that god directed evolution every step of the way for millions of years. who knows,maybe its so; i cant prove it isnt. you cant prove it is. Either way, tho, its still evolution.

it would not be a theory, and it would not make much sense, but at least that doesnt completely ignore the data.

Any theory is welcome, no rule at all that evolution has to be the only one.

Just one rule for this. The theory has to be consistent with the data.
Nobody has yet come up with an alternative that is consistent with the data. All are welcome to try.
 
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Split Rock

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What do you mean?

Reconstruction Theory is a viable theory. I actually do believe God did reconstruct the turtle in the beginning. Why must Evolution Theory be the only explanation? In the beginning God reconstructed the turtle. That's my theory.

How many times?
 
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Doveaman

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How many times did he reconstruct the elephant?
Well, the last reconstruction of the elephant occurred on the same day Adam was constructed, around five to ten thousand years ago, give or take a few years. Prior to that is anyone’s guess since the fossil record is just a chaotic mixture of old rocks and bones and we can’t really determine a definitive number from that chaotic mixture.

But assuming this image below is anything to go by...*snicker*...I would say there were quite a few reconstructions, even though I’m not quite sure why that little guy at the bottom left would be considered an elephant since he obviously doesn’t have any trunk or tusks like the others. I think a wild boar having a long snout and tusks looks more like an elephant than he does.

dinoelefante.jpg
images
 
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SkyWriting

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He "reconstructed" the elephant 22 times over six million years. :)

We don't know if that is human time or "time that takes place during the creation of Miracles".
 
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Doveaman

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A theory needs to have data. So you dont have a theory.
There is a 200 or so million year fossil record
Reconstruction Theory is in part based on that same data as well. It would seem Reconstruction Theory share some things in common with Evolution Theory – they both rely on much of the same physical data, even though the fossil record is somewhat of a chaotic mixture. But scientists like to spend time trying to figure out such chaotic puzzles.

The advantage of Reconstruction Theory over Evolution Theory is that Reconstruction Theory does not rely only on physical data, but also on biblical data. For example, have you ever wondered what the answer to man’s first question is according to your theory? –

evolution_32.jpg


– Reconstruction Theory explains the answer to this evolutionist question: "What's it all about?"

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness...” - Gen 1:26.

It’s all about us becoming like God in image and likeness. Our life’s journey is about following the ways of the Son of God so as to become more and more like God:

You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self...and to put on the new self, created to be like God... - Eph 4:22-24

Of course, this answer is according to Reconstruction Theory, and not Evolution Theory which seem to be only concerned with eating, surviving and reproducing.
There is a 200 or so million year fossil record with an ongoing succession of minor changes over that time... adding up to some pretty big changes.
Well, Reconstruction Theory only focuses on the big changes which were evidently the result of reconstruction, and not necessarily evolution. Reconstruction Theory recognizes and accepts micro-evolution, another thing our two theories share in common.
Now, if you want to say that "god" "reconstructed' the turtle thousands of times, with tiny incremental changes, fine. its kind of silly but go ahead.
Like I said, Reconstruction Theory recognizes and accepts micro-evolution.
All it would mean is that god directed evolution every step of the way for millions of years.
Sure, right, all God has to do is press a computer button and let nature take over, right? You seem to think that God is like evolution's Lazy-man on his computer. God is referred to by theists as the Creator. Do you know what kind of work a Creator does? He creates, meaning that He is into construction work.

In other words, and according to Reconstruction Theory, God is always constructing and reconstructing stuff as the biblical facts show: Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at His work to this very day..." - John 5:17, and He does not rely on computer buttons like Lazy-man to do His work for Him. Reconstruction Theory doesn’t necessarily seek to offer an explanation for Lazy-man, but Evolution Theory certainly does, as shown below:

die_evolution.jpg

who knows,maybe its so; i cant prove it isnt. you cant prove it is. Either way, tho, its still evolution.
If you want to refer to successive reconstructions of turtles as evolution I have no problem with that.
it would not be a theory, and it would not make much sense, but at least that doesnt completely ignore the data.
Reconstruction Theory and Evolution Theory rely on much of the same physical data, just interpreted differently.
Any theory is welcome, no rule at all that evolution has to be the only one.
You got that right.
Just one rule for this. The theory has to be consistent with the data.
No problem.
Nobody has yet come up with an alternative that is consistent with the data. All are welcome to try.
Reconstruction Theory is pretty consistent, IMO. Just show me the data and Reconstruction Theory will explain it for you.
 
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Hespera

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Reconstruction Theory is in part based on that same data as well. It would seem Reconstruction Theory share some things in common with Evolution Theory – they both rely on much of the same physical data, even though the fossil record is somewhat of a chaotic mixture. But scientists like to spend time trying to figure out such chaotic puzzles.


Ok, i didnt know there even was such a thing as "reconstruction theory".
I dont know where you get this 'chaotic mixture' stuff tho. What are you talking about? I've been around geologists, paleontologists, and gone on a number of field trips with same but that is a new concept to me. Please explain what this chaotic mixture stuff is.

you are right, tho scientists do like to figure things out. not just apply a magical explanation that explains all, no need to think.





The advantage of Reconstruction Theory over Evolution Theory is that Reconstruction Theory does not rely only on physical data, but also on biblical data. For example, have you ever wondered what the answer to man’s first question is according to your theory? –


Biblical data. So that is where putting the conclusion first comes in. check.


evolution_32.jpg


Interesting take on the cartoon. To me, it just means that all of the animals know what existence is for, how does this guy get confused.



– Reconstruction Theory explains the answer to this evolutionist question: "What's it all about?"

This is a true crock of metabolic waste product. There is no 'evolutionist' question like that. That is a philosophical question unrelated to the ToE



Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness...” - Gen 1:26.

It’s all about us becoming like God in image and likeness. Our life’s journey is about following the ways of the Son of God so as to become more and more like God:

You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self...and to put on the new self, created to be like God... - Eph 4:22-24

Of course, this answer is according to Reconstruction Theory, and not Evolution Theory which seem to be only concerned with eating, surviving and reproducing.
Well, Reconstruction Theory only focuses on the big changes which were evidently the result of reconstruction, and not necessarily evolution. Reconstruction Theory recognizes and accepts micro-evolution, another thing our two theories share in common.
Like I said, Reconstruction Theory recognizes and accepts micro-evolution.
Sure, right, all God has to do is press a computer button and let nature take over, right? You seem to think that God is like evolution's Lazy-man on his computer. God is referred to by theists as the Creator. Do you know what kind of work a Creator does? He creates, meaning that He is into construction work.

In other words, and according to Reconstruction Theory, God is always constructing and reconstructing stuff as the biblical facts show: Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at His work to this very day..." - John 5:17, and He does not rely on computer buttons like Lazy-man to do His work for Him. Reconstruction Theory doesn’t necessarily seek to offer an explanation for Lazy-man, but Evolution Theory certainly does, as shown below:

die_evolution.jpg

If you want to refer to successive reconstructions of turtles as evolution I have no problem with that.
Reconstruction Theory and Evolution Theory rely on much of the same physical data, just interpreted differently.
You got that right.
No problem.
Reconstruction Theory is pretty consistent, IMO. Just show me the data and Reconstruction Theory will explain it for you.

So lets see, what we have is a wonderful example of, yesss, god of the gaps!

We have long detailed evolutionary sequences in the fossil record. however far they go, that is micro evolution. Then when there is a gap, some period of time when the fossil bearing strata are missing due to non deposition, erosion, nor found yet, or buried too deep... that is where god jumped in and did a "reconstruction'. Then back to micro.


 
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LifeToTheFullest!

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The advantage of Reconstruction Theory over Evolution Theory is that Reconstruction Theory does not rely only on physical data, but also on biblical data.
So, there should then be a "Reconstruction Theory" that includes data from the Koran, Book of Mormon, Vedas, Epic of Gilgamesh, Native American folklore, Thor and the Jehovah's Witness Bible?

Unless of course the entire reason for your silly "Reconstruction Theory" is to somehow allow for some type of rectification in your mind so as to lessen your cognitive dissonance, there really is no real reason to mix religion and science.
 
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LifeToTheFullest!

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[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing morons, get a clue, Religion is a joke, it's just something to stop people having a temper tantrum when it comes to die time.


From what I can see here, you, God and Jesus are all [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]s. [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] off back to your primitive holes, [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing cavemen.
You really should go troll somewhere else.
 
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Doveaman

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So, there should then be a "Reconstruction Theory" that includes data from the Koran, Book of Mormon, Vedas, Epic of Gilgamesh, Native American folklore, Thor and the Jehovah's Witness Bible?
As long as the theory is consistent with their religious book and science, that's fine.
Unless of course the entire reason for your silly "Reconstruction Theory" is to somehow allow for some type of rectification in your mind so as to lessen your cognitive dissonance, there really is no real reason to mix religion and science.
If we had no form of science and relied on the Bible alone for answer about nature, our understanding of nature would be very limited, and even skewed. But by recognizing that science and Biblical religion are two sides of the same coin, science can be used to confirm Biblical clams and the Bible can be used to support scientific claims.

Anyone who is seeking answers to the questions of reality and life, and is of the view that Biblical religion and science should be separated is indeed out of touch with reality. To separate the two sides of a coin is to render the coin useless. To separate science from Biblical religion is to render reality useless. We may examine each side of the same coin separately, but we cannot separate them from each other. They both support each other and are both needed to explain reality. It is only a skewed religion or a skewed science that would want to separate Biblical religion from science and still expect to have a grasp on reality.
 
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Doveaman

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So lets see, what we have is a wonderful example of, yesss, god of the gaps!
We have long detailed evolutionary sequences in the fossil record. however far they go, that is micro evolution. Then when there is a gap, some period of time when the fossil bearing strata are missing due to non deposition, erosion, nor found yet, or buried too deep... that is where god jumped in and did a "reconstruction'. Then back to micro.
Even without the long geological time gaps God can still jump in. It is Evolution Theory that needs such huge gaps, not Reconstruction Theory. Reconstruction Theory simple seeks to explain the reason for the different "kinds" of life forms, each "kind" being a distinct and separate construction or reconstruction. The different features in your turtles suggest reconstruction:

proganoreconbig.png
 
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