• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Evolution

audiologic

Member
May 11, 2013
165
5
✟22,828.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Libertarian
Both evolution and creationism are theories. They are theories because no one (who is alive today) was around to see how it happened.

I do support evolution; if not just for scientific reasons, for philosophical reasons. Plus it's just common sense to me. Any creature (or human) adapts to its environment during its lifetime. For instance, if one grows up atheist, the conversion to Christianity is often an awkward one...however, over time, they become adapted to their church, network, prayer routine, etc. until it becomes second nature.

This is ideal, of course, and not always the case, but still.

Anytime you're faced with a problem, you try to find the best way to deal with it. When you first start swimming, you're overwhelmed and have no idea what to do. Over time you come to learn the techniques required to move and to stay afloat, and so that, too, becomes second nature.

When someone loses a limb, it's very noticeable. If 20 years go by, even though it may still be noticeable, they've adapted and perhaps even forgotten what it felt to be "whole" in the first place.

Everything and everyone, generally speaking, adapts to specific circumstances. Even if the discomfort (or comfort) never disappears, it does become automatic to deal with these things; they essentially become an extension of the person.

Why would this not be true over time?

Plus, evolution does not just apply to the physical world. There is spiritual evolution - growth in a person's spiritual life. As new circumstances develop, we learn to adapt, change, and move forward. If we do not, we are vulnerable.

It's based on the concept of progression - which is one of the most important keys to a healthy life, imo. Movement and change in and of themselves don't mean anything; it's movement and change in a POSITIVE and MORE BENEFICIAL direction that make all the difference...movement and change in a way that preserves life - physical, mental, spiritual life.

So if the concept of progressive change in a protective manner is present in those things, I don't see why it wouldn't happen over time.

But even if we proved evolution was false, beyond a shadow of a doubt...my beliefs stand unshaken. God can do whatever He wants to do. However, the evidence seriously points to evolution. Plus I take the Bible FAR less literally than just about any Christian I've met...to me, it's about reading between the lines. People miss the point when they try to center core teachings around explicit details, such as the Earth being born in 6 days.
 
Upvote 0

audiologic

Member
May 11, 2013
165
5
✟22,828.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Libertarian
We are talking something serious like growing a pair of limbs that doesn't exist in your own species.Please don't trivialize the discussion by quoting mundane examples of swimming going to church etc.

I marvel at the quality of your opposing argument, especially the objectivity of words such as "trivialize" and "mundane", in relation to my oh-so-silly-doesn't-make-any-logical-sense-and-seems-like-a-joke argument.

You're right...this is serious stuff. I need to post items of extensive length, make illustrations, and reflect on the seriousness. I'll stop posting answers that don't make sense to some people.

RationalT, if you don't mind my asking, how old are you?

Not old enough to swim.
 
Upvote 0

audiologic

Member
May 11, 2013
165
5
✟22,828.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Libertarian
I know way too many lovers of God who would disagree with you in a major way.

.

+1.

If God is outside the limits of the physical world, then how will activity in the physical world determine whether He governs it or not?

Some atheists are bent on disproving God using the laws of science. But to claim that we can know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is NOTHING that cannot be detected using our fancy machinery (and observed with our senses) is to claim that human perception is all-encompassing.

Evolution is not a "conventional" Christian idea; it's not what we ORIGINALLY thought (in general). But does the new evidence really mean that everything else goes out the window? Absolutely not. That's like saying:

"I thought my friend's letters were literal. Turns out he wrote them poetically, and not to be taken at face value. OK, he never was really my friend, I shouldn't have trusted him, and I'm going to burn all his letters now."

That's ignorance at its finest.
 
Upvote 0

audiologic

Member
May 11, 2013
165
5
✟22,828.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Libertarian
Well, in relation to your question, I'll also say that I don't consider myself "religious". Spiritual, yeah, but not religious. I don't go to church (intentionally), I hold unorthodox beliefs, and I don't expect others to apply everything that's worked for me.

But still, as one who essentially believes in God, I don't have a problem with evolution. I'm actually fond of the idea.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Rationalt

Newbie
Oct 18, 2009
3,015
100
✟3,858.00
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Married
I marvel at the quality of your opposing argument, especially the objectivity of words such as "trivialize" and "mundane", in relation to my oh-so-silly-doesn't-make-any-logical-sense-and-seems-like-a-joke argument.

You're right...this is serious stuff. I need to post items of extensive length, make illustrations, and reflect on the seriousness. I'll stop posting answers that don't make sense to some people.



Not old enough to swim.

I am not opposing your argument.I feel your examples are little boring(Guess that is Better than Mundane) No need to get antsy like the OP.
 
Upvote 0

dlamberth

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
20,157
3,177
Oregon
✟937,812.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
US-Others
If God is outside the limits of the physical world, then how will activity in the physical world determine whether He governs it or not?
You have a point to consider. The thing is, God is not outside of the physical world. And I don't see any boundary between the physical and spiritual. This Creation, both the seen and unseen is Whole, and One.

.
 
Upvote 0

dlamberth

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
20,157
3,177
Oregon
✟937,812.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
US-Others
I am Just surprised why they do that.
When one experiences God through the lens of Panentheism it might make more sense to you.

Apparently God has no role to play when you accept the theory of origin of species.
That theory is God natural. It neither denies God nor confirms God.

.
 
Upvote 0
Jan 20, 2013
534
21
✟23,329.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
This is just something I'm curious about, and I'd like to know the range of answers to this.

How many of you religious people accept evolution? If not, why not? If so, why, to what extent, and how does it fit into your religion?

Well I'm not religious and I don't have a religion - I have Christian faith, but I'll answer your question. I am a theistic evolutionist.

I'm not sure what you mean by how does it fit in?
 
Upvote 0

audiologic

Member
May 11, 2013
165
5
✟22,828.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Libertarian
I am Just surprised why they do that.Apparently God has no role to play when you accept the theory of origin of species.

How do you reason that?

If God is the creator of the physical world, and life (being a part of the physical world) has developed through natural selection, then the next logical step would be to conclude that God used natural selection as a means to fine-tune His masterpiece.

Also, if there was a "Big Bang", and that is the first event resulting in the formation of matter, who's to say that was not God's handiwork in the first place?

The assumption is that God is outside the physical realm that we can detect, but is directly connected to it.
 
Upvote 0

Rationalt

Newbie
Oct 18, 2009
3,015
100
✟3,858.00
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Married
When one experiences God through the lens of Panentheism it might make more sense to you.

That may make sense.But they are not many Panentheists around.

That theory is God natural. It neither denies God nor confirms God.

.

I don't know the basis for interpretation of God's hand in random genetic mutations.
 
Upvote 0

Rationalt

Newbie
Oct 18, 2009
3,015
100
✟3,858.00
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Married
How do you reason that? If God is the creator of the physical world, and life (being a part of the physical world) has developed through natural selection, then the next logical step would be to conclude that God used natural selection as a means to fine-tune His masterpiece.

May be you can explain the basis for God's hand in random genetic mutations that largely determines survival of beings.Throw in some scripture if it helps.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

awitch

Retired from Christian Forums
Mar 31, 2008
8,508
3,134
New Jersey, USA
✟26,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Both evolution and creationism are theories.

Please don't put them on equal footing. Evolution is a scientific theory: a collection of facts, that are established . Creationism starts with a conclusion and picks whatever evidence might support it and rejects any and all evidence that contradicts it, for no other reason than it contradicts it. Evolution is a foundational block of science while creationism makes absolutely no falsifiable predictions.

They are theories because no one (who is alive today) was around to see how it happened.

We have millions of fossils that demonstrate evolution and we do witness evolution, mostly for small organisms like bacteria and fungi because of their short life cycles. Scientists also use inductive reasoning; a physical witness how lives millions of years is not required.
 
Upvote 0

audiologic

Member
May 11, 2013
165
5
✟22,828.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Libertarian
May be you can explain the basis for God's hand in random genetic mutations that largely determines survival of beings.Throw in some scripture if it helps.

Uh, in case you didn't notice, I haven't referenced scripture once, and I've essentially been cast aside from the true "Christians" for holding "heretical" interests, so I would appreciate it if you wouldn't lump me in with those blinded by dogma.

Evolution occurred through random genetic mutations. Correct? These random genetic mutations occurred over time, and are something that COULD have been observed by humans had they been around and had the proper tools. Correct?

Now, suppose a group of individuals have composed an elaborate form of written communication. To any uneducated individual, it seems like a mangled bunch of nonsensical markings. But the truth is, there's INTENT behind it. So when it gets written down, and someone finds it, they say it's "random". It's not random. It's only chaotic to those who don't possess the key.

Or...

A person throws a glass jar of multi-colored sand on the floor. It forms a pattern. Assuming it doesn't get disturbed, days later two people come by and see it. One says "Someone must have done this! It's a work of art!" and the other says "No one did it, it must have fallen off the shelf."

Keep in mind that I don't think science, beauty, evolution, or anything else "proves" or "disproves" God. I'm not trying to establish proof that God exists and evolution was His tool; I'm saying that it's impossible to prove it otherwise. I don't spend my time trying to prove God exists to anyone...as far as the scientific method goes, it's not feasible. Nor is it feasible to rule it out.

"Random" is relative. Do we know everything? No.

You just have to look closer, sometimes. There IS order and uniformity to nature, even though there is also chaos. And who knows if we'll ever be able to determine where the patterns lie; we are captives to our biological vessels, and our senses are limited.
 
Upvote 0