Evolution

[r2d2651]

I wasn't sure where to post this because i don't know what most of these words on the forum nav mean. But I want to ask everyone about evolution and if god used it because at youth group once I mentioned it and people had little freakouts... I'm hoping people here will exlplain it better without freaking out.

 

[shernren]

Yes, youth groups tend to do that around topics like evolution.

The theory of evolution is, at heart, a natural explanation of the origins of modern biodiversity. That's really all there is to it.

Are you more interested in knowing what evolution itself actually is, or whether or not Christians should have an issue with it? The whole area is very vast, so it would help if you can tell us exactly what issues you would like answered and what exactly freaked your youth group out.

 

[champuru]

I have a friend that gets angry at me like i'm a heathen when i say that i believe in evolution. not only could God use evolution, from scientific evidence it shows that evolution did occur. Many Christians including myself believe that God used evolution as a means of creation. Others include Pope John Paul II and Billy Graham.

 

[Mallon]

I have a friend that gets angry at me like i'm a heathen when i say that i believe in evolution.

Get used to it. There will always be people like that.

 

[Tissue]

American Christians are, for whatever reason, very distrustful of science.

Evolution is essentially fact, but many Christians will argue that point vehemently, despite the almost universal acceptance at the academic level. Christians apparently believe that evolution contradicts Scripture, or necessarily means God does not exist, or any number of strange things, none of which are true.

I daresay that 99% of Christians who deny evolution really do not know anything about the theory.

 

[Drekkan85]

First things first - there's no contradiction between evolution and religion. There IS a conflict between 'literal' Christianity (which usually requires at least a little interpretation though, admittedly, it cuts this down to an absolute minimum). But there are many church goers, and church leaders, that understand and accept evolution. Thus if anyone paints it as a dichotomy between religion and science, they're lying.

If you're looking for real information on information I'd encourage you to go to the physical sciences board in the society section. The one thing is that you have to be open to being wrong, and understand that a lot of the 'objections' are things they've heard and debunked many, many times already.

 

[Mallon]

I daresay that 99% of Christians who deny evolution really do not know anything about the theory.

That much is obvious. I have yet to see an argument against evolution that actually addresses current thinking on the issue.

There IS a conflict between 'literal' Christianity (which usually requires at least a little interpretation though, admittedly, it cuts this down to an absolute minimum).

Choosing to interpret the Bible literally is no less an interpretation than choosing to read it allegorically.

 

[champuru]

That much is obvious. I have yet to see an argument against evolution that actually addresses current thinking on the issue.

Yes they always use claims that have been debunked years, if not decades, ago.

Choosing to interpret the Bible literally is no less an interpretation than choosing to read it allegorically.

Agreed, especially when the part of the bible is obviously allegorical.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The real problem with belief in evolution (as most understand, or misunderstand it) is that it places the demand on your mind that more and more you must prove everything scientifically. The more one thinks this way the less likely they are to understand the bible story, which is waaaaaaay unscientific.

owg

 

[Tissue]

That's not really a critique of evolution, nor is it necessarily true.

 

[Mallon]

The real problem with belief in evolution (as most understand, or misunderstand it) is that it places the demand on your mind that more and more you must prove everything scientifically.

How does that differ from any other science?

 

[gluadys]

The real problem with belief in evolution (as most understand, or misunderstand it) is that it places the demand on your mind that more and more you must prove everything scientifically. The more one thinks this way the less likely they are to understand the bible story, which is waaaaaaay unscientific.

owg

I agree. That is why creationism and ID are so wrong. They refuse to understand that the bible story is waaaaaaay unscientific. And that that is ok.

It doesn't have to be scientific to teach valuable truths. We need to place more value on the kind of literature the bible is and stop despising its literary format as if that made it untrue.

That's one reason for my new signature.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I agree. That is why creationism and ID are so wrong. They refuse to understand that the bible story is waaaaaaay unscientific. And that that is ok.

It doesn't have to be scientific to teach valuable truths. We need to place more value on the kind of literature the bible is and stop despising its literary format as if that made it untrue.

That's one reason for my new signature.

At this time in my study I would say that the bible is a mystery yet to be solved. (Of course everyone, including myself, thinks they've solved it. )

What is your new signature?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How does that differ from any other science?

If (any) religion held itself to scientific standards there would soon be no religions at all. The scientific method can help, but cannot discover spiritual truth. God made sure of that by tossing in all the exceptions contained in human thought and behavior. Rocks don't lie, but people do.

owg

 

[Mallon]

If (any) religion held itself to scientific standards there would soon be no religions at all. The scientific method can help, but cannot discover spiritual truth. God made sure of that by tossing in all the exceptions contained in human thought and behavior. Rocks don't lie, but people do.

Thanks for the reply, owg, but I'm not sure that you actually answered my question.
You said that evolution, specifically, "places the demand on your mind that more and more you must prove everything scientifically". I'm asking what it is that makes you think evolution forces people to think scientifically, but not, say, physics or chemistry. Why single out evolution?

 

[gluadys]

At this time in my study I would say that the bible is a mystery yet to be solved. (Of course everyone, including myself, thinks they've solved it. )

What is your new signature?

You can't see it in my posts? Here it is.


"Those who think metaphorically are enabled to think truly, because the shape of their thinking echoes the shape of the world." ~~ Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor

Jan Zwicky is a professor of philosophy at the University of Victoria in British Columbia, Canada, where my son is one of her students. He gave me her book as a Christmas present.

 

[shernren]

How does that differ from any other science?

[DD]
​

In real science you wave your hands around and only make conclusions that you knew you were going to believe in even before you saw any evidence.

[/DD]


(because, y'know, some posts are pair-o-Dees.)
​

 

[Tissue]

In real science you wave your hands around and only make conclusions that you knew you were going to believe in even before you saw any evidence.

Yup. That's false.

Some might do that, but that is not indicative of all scientists, nor is it inherent to the scientific process.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Thanks for the reply, owg, but I'm not sure that you actually answered my question.
You said that evolution, specifically, "places the demand on your mind that more and more you must prove everything scientifically". I'm asking what it is that makes you think evolution forces people to think scientifically, but not, say, physics or chemistry. Why single out evolution?

You've really asked a question not illicited by my statement, imo anyway.

I meant that when a Christian becomes a believer in evolution he is more and more exposed to the scientific method of determining facts and less likely to use the needed unscientific methods such as metaphor, typology, allegory, etc. in his pursuit of understanding God's word.

I was answering the OP's question, "What is the problem with evolution?" It's not belief in evolution per se, but the path of thought it can create. For many that path may not lead to God.

owg

 

[Mallon]

I meant that when a Christian becomes a believer in evolution he is more and more exposed to the scientific method of determining facts and less likely to use the needed unscientific methods such as metaphor, typology, allegory, etc. in his pursuit of understanding God's word.

Doesn't this fly in the face of the great number of YECs who insist on reading the Bible as literally as possible and playing apologetics with reference to "creation science"?
If anything, I think a Christian acceptance of evolution leads to the virtues you listed, not away from them.