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pgp_protector

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Not a mod so I can't move threads, but this really belongs here

Original Thread -> Link

 

pgp_protector

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First Part.
I notice there are no names given, but that's normal.

But you're correct in that YOU Believe , is you've got faith that's it's a myth.
But people Believe in lots of things, including elves, little people, ect, but believing doesn't make something true.
 
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pgp_protector

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Coexistent Simultaneously ?
The "Cambrian Explosion" is over a time period of (If I Recall Correctly) about 53 Million Years, not really a short time as Some would like to present it as.

I like how they give 1 Date(The Oldest) but not the ending Date (around 490 Million Years Ago)
 
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pgp_protector

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Yes it's true that most (not All) Soft body Tissues fossilize as the process of fossilization itself is verry rare.

98% Extinct is better than the Flood Story By the way so if you want to take the Flood as true, then a survival of 2% is more than enough.
 
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TheDag

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Hi
I have a question. What on earth does the dates mentioned have to do with things? So they don't mention an end date. The way I see it is that what is written is either right or wrong regardless of if they mentioned an end date. So is there some relevance of the date that I'm not understanding?



Considering how defensive she got from post 1 (which wasn't even insulting) I doubt very much she'll come here to respond.
I actually read one of PGP's comments to be insulting and the other not to be. The disadvantage of not having full communication available. The majority of what we communicate is not in the words we actually say. So it is very much open to interpretation as to if PGP was being insulting or not. he has said he wasn't so we'll have to take his word for it.
 
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NailsII

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If I told you that an 'explosion' happened 530 mya, the obvious connotation is that it immediatly occured, in a small space of time.
By limiting the scale of the 'explosion' from an instant/day/month/year to a period of around 50million years (which is what the evidence suggests) put it all into perspective.

Those with an ounce of knowledge of evolutionary facts will know that in 50 million years whales and dolphins have evolved from land mammals.

That just shows what can happen in such a large period of time (compared to our lives), but appear as such a short period of time in the geological coloumn - which does of course represent around 4.5 billion years of rock formation/deformation etc.

It is in effect a slight of hand trick, a tactic most commonly used by journalists or lawyers.
It is certainly a method not commonly used by scientists, because in science you don't 'win' by presenting the best argument.
Your argument needs to be consistant with the evidence, and it must be corroborated independantly.
 
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Naraoia

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Not a mod so I can't move threads, but this really belongs here

Original Thread -> Link
Tl;dr was my first thought (but then I've been poring over CF for hours already).

However, this caught my eye:

Remarkably the layers below the Cambrian have practically nothing with regard to fossilized specimens. The few creatures that are found in pre-Cambrian strata are all soft-bodied organisms like worms.
Actually, there are no undisputed "worms" in the Pre-Cambrian that I know of.

Also, there are things with hard parts in the latest Pre-Cambrian: for example, Cloudina, little stacked ice cream cones that would have housed a simple animal, and Namacalathus, a stalked... thingy with holes in it.

And this...



The 98% doesn't mean that the number of species per period decreases. It just means that species come and go, and "today" is a short moment compared to earth history.

Let's assume the 1.5 million or so described species are all that exists on earth today (there are probably far more than that, but I don't want to go into dodgy estimates).

Then all species that ever existed - "ever" will mean in the past 543 million years, since the beginning of the Cambrian - would have numbered about 75 million.

Species don't last forever.

So, if we slot those 73.5 million extinct species into, say, 1 million year intervals, assuming that every species exists for exactly one interval and then goes extinct or gives rise to one or more new species (not exactly realistic, but it'll serve for illustration), then there would be 135 359 species per interval. If we use 10 million year bins, it goes up to ten times that, but that's still only ~the number alive today, and species definitely don't last tens of millions of years very often. So, no, "98% extinct" doesn't mean that species diversity has declined.

Actually, biodiversity has increased steadily since the Cambrian (The graph shows the number of marine genera against time before present. There's a reference in the description. Note that the present is towards the left).

 
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plindboe

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I'd guess you'd be fine then with me saying that the Second World War happened on the 1th of september 1939? That's some short war.

Peter
 
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plindboe

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I get the impression that the person who wrote the original piece somehow thinks that all phyla being found in Cambrian strata means that all species that ever existed are found in those strata. I wonder what (s)he would say when informed that the vertebrate fossils from those layers are all primitive fish, looking, to a laymen's eyes, nothing like any modern species.

Peter
 
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TheDag

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I guess the problem starts when all people know explosions as are quick occourences rather than something that can happen over a long period of time. Never once in my years of study or discussions with my brother (or his fellow scientists) has anyone EVER suggested that explosions are not neccesarily a quick thing but could rather happen over millions of years. it is a pity nobody untill now wanted to explain this. So I wouldn't neccesarily agree that it is a sleight of hand trick as you suggest but rather if what you say is true then it is the inability of scientists and the like to explain this. Why is it that this is the first time I have heard this in over 20 years of discussion about evolution theory?

Perhaps it has been said in some conference and when the discussions have been recorded and edited into a form for publishing it gets left out. I've seen that happen with statements made by christian leaders where the public statement doesn't reflect what was actually said very well (sometimes not at all!) so I'm sure it could happen in science as well.


Yes I understand how scientists work. You see they compete for funding so they don't actually care what the other person is doing or if it is right or wrong. They just want to discredit them so they can get that persons funding. This is different to what Richard Dawkins tries to suggest is the norm. He suggests that scientists are more than happy to be proven wrong. There may be some who are but mostly they will fight tooth and nail over it not calmly walk up to the other person and say thankyou.
 
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TheDag

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I'd guess you'd be fine then with me saying that the Second World War happened on the 1th of september 1939? That's some short war.

Peter
Comparing apples to oranges here. One your taught there was a start and end date while the other you are told about an explosion and never taught the concept that an explosion can take place over years let alone millions of years. Still if what has been said in the original post is true it still does not matter if there is an end date mentioned in my view. I appreciate the explanation Nails gave and found it helpful.

The funny thing was if it was the other way around with me making a statement like that then in my experience I would just be dismissed as a stupid christian who obviously doesn't believe in thinking. funny that!
 
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Tinker Grey

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Well, it's the third line on the wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion

Over the following 70 or 80 million years the rate of evolution accelerated by an order of magnitude (as defined in terms of the extinction and origination rate of species) and the diversity of life began to resemble today’s.

It would seem to be basic knowledge on the topic.

Note also that that line comes with two footnotes and the entire article has 91. Call me a pollyanna, but I'd say that that is ample.
 
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Tinker Grey

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Well, it's the third line on the wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion

Over the following 70 or 80 million years the rate of evolution accelerated by an order of magnitude (as defined in terms of the extinction and origination rate of species) and the diversity of life began to resemble today’s.

It would seem to be basic knowledge on the topic.

Note also that that line comes with two footnotes and the entire article has 91. Call me a pollyanna, but I'd say that that is ample.
 
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Hespera

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TheDag...Quote "Yes I understand how scientists work. You see they compete for funding so they don't actually care what the other person is doing or if it is right or wrong. They just want to discredit them so they can get that persons funding. This is different to what Richard Dawkins tries to suggest is the norm. He suggests that scientists are more than happy to be proven wrong. There may be some who are but mostly they will fight tooth and nail over it not calmly walk up to the other person and say thankyou.:<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<quote

So apparently you have never met or even been in the same room with a scientist.
 
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plindboe

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I'm sure we can agree that "explosion" is a sure way to confuse laymen who don't know anything about the Cambrian Explosion. But for the rest of us, the ones who actually read books about it, there's no confusion. It's not a secret that it happened over tens of millions of years. Of course if you only read religiously biased sources, it's no wonder you end up confused.

The lesson is to be critical of your sources. Read science, if you want to know science.


The funny thing was if it was the other way around with me making a statement like that then in my experience I would just be dismissed as a stupid christian who obviously doesn't believe in thinking. funny that!

That's just paranoia talking. There are plenty of respected christians on these forums. The reason they are respected is because they know what they are talking about.

Peter
 
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