Evolution vs. Creationsism

[romber]

First of all I'm glad I found this site. Theres not much refuge anywhere else on the web.

Alright to my question. I argue alot about evolution vs creationsim at other forums. I always tell myself not to get involved because the arguments go on forever. but I just cant stand it when they put that up and people believe it. I feel obliged to argue against it. But of course when I do, I'm always in the minority. Everyone supports evolution it looks like.

I just need to know moe facts why evolution is false and why creationsim is true.

And I dont know if this goes here but I will just ask it.

Someone said the bible can be traced back to ancient egyptian teachings from their god Ptah. Thus meaning the bible is made off of egyptian spiritual teachings or something to that sort. Is this true, or did ptah followers copy the bible?

Happy Easter!!

 

[gluadys]

First of all I'm glad I found this site. Theres not much refuge anywhere else on the web.

Alright to my question. I argue alot about evolution vs creationsim at other forums. I always tell myself not to get involved because the arguments go on forever. but I just cant stand it when they put that up and people believe it. I feel obliged to argue against it. But of course when I do, I'm always in the minority. Everyone supports evolution it looks like.

You will find that is the case here too. We are all Christians, but many of us are theistic evolutionists who do not consider evolution to be hostile to Christian faith or scripture.

I just need to know moe facts why evolution is false and why creationsim is true.

Do you really mean "creationism" or do you mean "creation"? Evolution does not speak of creation since it is not about the origin of life. It is not a rejection of creation.

But it most certainly does conflict with creationISM. Are you aware of the distinction between Creation and creationism?

And I dont know if this goes here but I will just ask it.

Someone said the bible can be traced back to ancient egyptian teachings from their god Ptah. Thus meaning the bible is made off of egyptian spiritual teachings or something to that sort. Is this true, or did ptah followers copy the bible?

Happy Easter!!

Can't help you on that one. But many Egyptian and Babylonian writings are much older than the oldest Hebrew writings, so if any copying was done it was more likely from the older writings to the Hebrew than vice versa.

 

[chaoschristian]

Someone said the bible can be traced back to ancient egyptian teachings from their god Ptah. Thus meaning the bible is made off of egyptian spiritual teachings or something to that sort. Is this true, or did ptah followers copy the bible?

Welcome to CF and to the Origins Theology forum. I hope that your stay here will prove both profitable and enjoyable.

With regards to your last point, I don't know. But keep in mind that literature of any sort, including scripture, is not either created in a vacuum, nor does it exist in a vacuum.

We do know that other ancient cultures, such as the Egyptians and the Babylonians, that would have had contact with the ancient Hebrews had creation myths. By comparatively examing these myths with the creation account in Genesis one can see both similarities and differences. What you conclude from that is a matter of your own choosing.

 

[HypnoToad]

But many Egyptian and Babylonian writings are much older than the oldest Hebrew writings, so if any copying was done it was more likely from the older writings to the Hebrew than vice versa.

That is really not a valid point. It fails to consider that the Biblical accounts would have existed as oral tradition LONG before they were written down. Just because some other accounts were written earlier, that doesn't mean they originated earlier.

 

[gluadys]

That is really not a valid point. It fails to consider that the Biblical accounts would have existed as oral tradition LONG before they were written down. Just because some other accounts were written earlier, that doesn't mean they originated earlier.

So? The Egyptian and Babylonian accounts would have existed as oral tradition long before they were written down too.

The question was not about which stories originated earlier, but about whether the Egyptian written account was copied from the Hebrew written account or vice versa.

"Copying" would not really be the right term either. It is more a borrowing of story elements and modifying them to bring them in line with one's own cultural matrix.

 

[HypnoToad]

So? The Egyptian and Babylonian accounts would have existed as oral tradition long before they were written down too.

Didn't say anything to the contrary.

The fact remains that any claims on originality based just on "earliest writing" simply aren't valid.

(And, yes, "originality" DOES include "borrowing" details from other faiths.)

 

[Dannager]

First of all I'm glad I found this site. Theres not much refuge anywhere else on the web.

Glad to have you here!

Alright to my question. I argue alot about evolution vs creationsim at other forums. I always tell myself not to get involved because the arguments go on forever. but I just cant stand it when they put that up and people believe it. I feel obliged to argue against it. But of course when I do, I'm always in the minority. Everyone supports evolution it looks like.

Yes, most of us do accept evolutionary theory. It's very well evidenced.

I just need to know moe facts why evolution is false and why creationsim is true.

I'm not sure where you'll find them. I've spent a long time looking for such facts and haven't been able to come up with any. You're welcome to look, though.

And I dont know if this goes here but I will just ask it.

Someone said the bible can be traced back to ancient egyptian teachings from their god Ptah. Thus meaning the bible is made off of egyptian spiritual teachings or something to that sort. Is this true, or did ptah followers copy the bible?

I'll leave this to someone more knowledgeable in ancient culture history.

Happy Easter!!

You too!

 

[gluadys]

Didn't say anything to the contrary.

The fact remains that any claims on originality based just on "earliest writing" simply aren't valid.

(And, yes, "originality" DOES include "borrowing" details from other faiths.)

Please read the OP. It is not about claims of originality other than those that were written. After all, if the bible can be traced back to the teachings of Ptah, it would have to be to those teachings in their written form. We no longer have access to an ancient Egyptian oral tradition in order to compare notes. Just as we no longer have access to an ancient Hebrew oral tradition except as it has been preserved in written form.

It is difficult enough to trace ancient writings to the first written source. It is much, much more difficult to trace oral traditions. I don't know why you even raise the issue.

 

[jabechler]

though if dont claim to understand all the terminolgyI do believe in the recent creation view as literal from scripture. I agree with the oral tradition moving to the written. since God created Adam and Eve I believe with remarkable intellect and a personnal knowlegde of God that after sin entered the world humanity began a steady decline. those that turned from God used that knowledge in an ever degrading and peverted way thuse producing all forms of beliefs and ideas.This is why in nancient writtings we find similiarities for religion and creation and the flood etc....

 

[chaoschristian]

jabechler, and Welcome to the Origins Theology forum.

 

[relspace]

Everyone supports evolution it looks like.

I just need to know moe facts why evolution is false and why creationsim is true.

Well I am in an even smaller minority since I generally reject both. Ironically, I reject both for the same reason. Both completely misunderstand the nature of living things. I do believe that God created all living things and I do accept evolution as a valid scientific theory. But I reject the idea of evolution as an mechanical process that proceeds by accident and I reject the idea of creationism that living things are designed. Living things cannot be designed. That is contrary to their nature. Design is a part of the process for creating dead things like machines. The examples of creators of living things in everyday life provide the proper model for the creation of living things: farmers, shepherds, teachers and parents. None of these do any designing. The creation of living things is an interactive process of participating in the life of the living thing which is created, which is described by the activities of cultivation, breeding, and teaching. Likewise living things are not the product of random mutations and mechanical natural laws. This is contrary to their nature. Living things are always active particpants in their developmental process. The theory of evolution is an objective scientific way of looking at the process of growth, creativity and learning of the species of living organisms. It is not an accidental or mechanical process happening to living things but an intentional activity of living things.

If you really want a discussion under the presumptions of Creationism, then you need to post under Creationism subtopic. Otherwise you are going to get Theistic Evoluionists like gluadys and me reminding you that not all Christians feel the need to reject the sciences as incompatable with their faith.

 

[jon914]

First of all I'm glad I found this site. Theres not much refuge anywhere else on the web.

Alright to my question. I argue alot about evolution vs creationsim at other forums. I always tell myself not to get involved because the arguments go on forever. but I just cant stand it when they put that up and people believe it. I feel obliged to argue against it. But of course when I do, I'm always in the minority. Everyone supports evolution it looks like.

I just need to know moe facts why evolution is false and why creationsim is true.

And I dont know if this goes here but I will just ask it.

Someone said the bible can be traced back to ancient egyptian teachings from theis god Ptah. Thus meaning the bible is made off of egyptian spiritual teachings or something to that sort. Is this true, or did ptah followers copy the bible?

Happy Easter!![/quote


Let take a look at your words and see what you are seeking.

"I can't stand it"
" I argue alot"
"I feel oblagated to argue"
"I need some moe Facts"
"Some one said"

You may ask any question you like, but I don't believe you are really looking for an answer, because if you did it would not be some one said, it would be who said.

Evolution, can not be proven, because it is just an idea, that godless men put together to take away from what God said.

You may argue the point of who is right or worng, but I will stay with the word of God as the creator, and still love you


John914

 

[KerrMetric]

that godless men put together to take away from what God said.

You need better teachers or quit listening to that goofy pastor.