Evolution Vs Creationism

[.Iona.]

I was out this morning and there was a Christian preaching in the street about how science is trying to take away religion. He was saying that Evolution is nonsense and the scientific facts were made up to try and stop people believing in God.

So, it got me thinking.

Do Christians here agree with that guy - that evolution is nonsense?

The Bible says that God created the world, and created the first humans, so where does that leave evolution in the eyes of Christians?

Can you believe in both? Can you really argue science?

I find it a really interesting subject.

 

[Celtic D]

Science and faith are not incompatable. Many Christians including myself are Theistic Evolutionists we believe evolution was started and guided by God - in fact I can't conceive how God could not be involved.

Yes I believe God created the world and the first humans, it is the mechanics that Creationists and Theistic Evolutionists would disagree on.

 

[.Iona.]

Science and faith are not incompatable. Many Christians including myself are Theistic Evolutionists we believe evolution was started and guided by God - in fact I can't conceive how God could not be involved.

Yes I believe God created the world and the first humans, it is the mechanics that Creationists and Theistic Evolutionists would disagree on.

I have actually not heard much about what Theistic Evolutionists believe.

So, do you believe Adam and Eve were the first evolved humans? And, that God guided this evolution to happen to fit his plans?

 

[Celtic D]

I believe Adam and Eve to be allegorical - a "story" with a message.

TEs are Christians who believe that science and faith are not incompatable (real science, not the science you get in places like Answers I Genesis)

 

[Mr Dave]

I was out this morning and there was a Christian preaching in the street about how science is trying to take away religion. He was saying that Evolution is nonsense and the scientific facts were made up to try and stop people believing in God.

So, it got me thinking.

Do Christians here agree with that guy - that evolution is nonsense?

No! Evolution is the complete opposite of nonsense.

The Bible says that God created the world, and created the first humans, so where does that leave evolution in the eyes of Christians?

Can you believe in both? Can you really argue science?

I find it a really interesting subject.

It leaves evolution exactly where it would if the Bible didn't say that, in a position of being the most sound scientific understanding for the rise of and diversity of life on the planet.

 

[.Iona.]

I believe Adam and Eve to be allegorical - a "story" with a message.

TEs are Christians who believe that science and faith are not incompatable (real science, not the science you get in places like Answers I Genesis)

Right, thanks

So, the Bible isn't literal to you?

Sorry if I am asking stupid questions! Just this is new to me.

 

[.Iona.]

It leaves evolution exactly where it would if the Bible didn't say that, in a position of being the most sound scientific understanding for the rise of and diversity of life on the planet.

How do you see the story of Adam and Eve?

 

[Mr Dave]

How do you see the story of Adam and Eve?

I see it as a story that was written well over two thousand years ago to some people who live amongst other groups of people with conflicting ideas about what life was about, and what man's relationship with God was. It was written in a society that heavily depended on stories to explain things. There was no TV, no internet, nothing like that. To explain slightly deeper things, stories were used (we still do this too), instead of writing up essays for people to struggle with.

Adam is the Hebrew word for man, and as such is representative of what it is to be male.
Eve is the mother of all the living (Gen 3:20) and in the story is representative of what it is to be female and motherly.
Together they represent humankind and are representative of what it is to be human.

The story also shows that humans have failings (done through the story of the fall).
The story explains why things aren't perfect; because evil exists in the world.

None of this diminishes the importance of the Adam and Eve story, it's just important how it's read to not come up with some shaky theology such as science and religion are incompatible.

 

[Celtic D]

Right, thanks

So, the Bible isn't literal to you?

Sorry if I am asking stupid questions! Just this is new to me.

Much of it is literal to me, but not it all (and no your questions are not stupid, ask away )

 

[ericlawrence]

I believe Adam and Eve to be allegorical - a "story" with a message.

TEs are Christians who believe that science and faith are not incompatable (real science, not the science you get in places like Answers I Genesis)

If the story of Adam and Eve - and there for the story of original sin - is an allegory, then is not the sacrifice from which to redeem us of this original sin an allegory as well? I'm assuming you believe Jesus died on the cross to relieve us of our sins. How is this compatible with a metaphorical, rather than literal, Genesis?

 

[.Iona.]

I see it as a story that was written well over two thousand years ago to some people who live amongst other groups of people with conflicting ideas about what life was about, and what man's relationship with God was. It was written in a society that heavily depended on stories to explain things. There was no TV, no internet, nothing like that. To explain slightly deeper things, stories were used (we still do this too), instead of writing up essays for people to struggle with.

Adam is the Hebrew word for man, and as such is representative of what it is to be male.
Eve is the mother of all the living (Gen 3:20) and in the story is representative of what it is to be female and motherly.
Together they represent humankind and are representative of what it is to be human.

The story also shows that humans have failings (done through the story of the fall).
The story explains why things aren't perfect; because evil exists in the world.

None of this diminishes the importance of the Adam and Eve story, it's just important how it's read to not come up with some shaky theology such as science and religion are incompatible.

That's a good explanation, thank you

 

[Mr Dave]

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Friendly reminder of the rules for this forum;

We recognize that real seekers are looking for real answers, and the first reply given may be insufficient to achieve this. It is acceptable for the Original Poster (OP) to probe the answers given, and to continue the discussion on lines which help to clarify their understanding of the Christian faith. If another non-Christian seeker wishes to ask questions about the Christian faith, they may start their own thread. No more than one non-Christian (the OP) may post in a thread.

Mod-Hat Off​

 

[Mr Dave]

That's a good explanation, thank you

No prob, glad it made sense to you

 

[ericlawrence]

Friendly reminder of the rules for this forum;

We recognize that real seekers are looking for real answers, and the first reply given may be insufficient to achieve this. It is acceptable for the Original Poster (OP) to probe the answers given, and to continue the discussion on lines which help to clarify their understanding of the Christian faith. If another non-Christian seeker wishes to ask questions about the Christian faith, they may start their own thread. No more than one non-Christian (the OP) may post in a thread.

Not sure I'm clear. Was this evoked because the OP is Christian (Unitarian) or because I interjected? I realize my "faith" is listed as atheist, but there can also be a strong case made for me being a Christian - Catholic, at that. I'm sure I could have my baptismal and confirmation records faxed in on request. If I'm not mistaken, the Vatican still claims me based on those records so I figure this makes me a card carrying Christian, no?

 

[.Iona.]

No prob, glad it made sense to you

I actually like that explanation. It fits in with a belief I could have.

 

[.Iona.]

Much of it is literal to me, but not it all (and no your questions are not stupid, ask away )

How do you know which parts to take literally and which not to?

 

[Celtic D]

If the story of Adam and Eve - and there for the story of original sin - is an allegory, then is not the sacrifice from which to redeem us of this original sin an allegory as well? I'm assuming you believe Jesus died on the cross to relieve us of our sins. How is this compatible with a metaphorical, rather than literal, Genesis?

We all have free will and are therefore are sinful, the Adam and Eve story illustrates this as explained by Mr Dave. Christ died to redeem us from these sins.

 

[Celtic D]

How do you know which parts to take literally and which not to?

The first eleven chapters of Genesis are alegorical.The rest more or less is literal (the Gospels are definately), but some of Paul's teaching I definately don't subscribe to.

 

[.Iona.]

Not sure I'm clear. Was this evoked because the OP is Christian (Unitarian) or because I interjected?

I would not call myself Christian in the traditional sense

 

[CryptoLutheran]

I was out this morning and there was a Christian preaching in the street about how science is trying to take away religion. He was saying that Evolution is nonsense and the scientific facts were made up to try and stop people believing in God.

So, it got me thinking.

Do Christians here agree with that guy - that evolution is nonsense?

The Bible says that God created the world, and created the first humans, so where does that leave evolution in the eyes of Christians?

Can you believe in both? Can you really argue science?

I find it a really interesting subject.

Young Earth Creationism is in a sense a somewhat modern phenomenon, for example one can go back to Origen or St. Augustine of Hippo to see that Christians have interpreted Genesis 1 non-literally.

Some Christians, like Augustine, held that it should be read allegorically--Augustine believed in a young universe (6,000 years) on the basis of an allegorical reading, believing that God created everything instantaneously in the beginning and thus the six days represent six ages.

Other Christians, such as myself, adhere to what's known as the Framework Hypothesis, where the point of Genesis 1 isn't as a literal-historic-scientific account of creation but is instead intended as a theological framework.

Young Earth Creationism requires a somewhat literal reading of the early chapters of Genesis usually following Ussher's chronology; there are also Old Earth Creationists who come in several kinds. And then there are Theistic Evolutionists (also known as Evolutionary Creationism) who do not believe there is any conflict between science and Christian faith; the purpose of the Creation narrative(s) aren't intended to be literal, historical or scientific but instead intended as theological and mythological.

Personally I read the pre-Abrahamic narratives in Genesis as forming a general pre-historic mythological prologue for establishing the setting for Abraham's call from Ur and all the events that lead up to what's more important, and that's the Israelites finding themselves in Egypt and God calling Moses to liberate them from Egypt in the Exodus.

The Exodus is the defining story for Israel's identity as the Covenant People with God, Genesis establishes a pre-historic mythological world setting followed by the Abrahamic narrative to establish Israel's rights to Canaan.

That I can accept life evolved on this planet over the course of a couple billion years doesn't contradict my belief in God as Creator, nor my believe in Christ, who is the only-begotten Son and Word of God becoming flesh being Savior of the world by His death, resurrection and coming again at the end of all things. It's no more hazardous to my trust in Scripture and faith in God than my acceptance of a heliocentric model of the solar system.

-CryptoLutheran