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Thank you for clarifying, KTatis.I think I mistyped everything. What I was saying is Scientist spend all their hard work and money on collage to study the things around us but when it comes to christianity they claim that they know everything just by reading the Bible. True although I am a Christian I do believe in evolution.
P.S. Sorry for all the confusion but continue on. You guys had some very interesting points... even though they kind of targeted me. But all thats been cleared up now. : )
cwalla5 said:It takes more faith to believe in the "BIG BANG" and "EVOLUTION" than it is to believe that there is a creator.
Do you realize how intricate of a process that is to have just happened by mistake? How many complicated life-changing events have occurred in your life by mistake?
cwalla5 said:How can someone say that evolution is any more real than creation?
Just like I haven't seen God and believe in Him, you haven't seen anything evolve lately, but you still believe. Oh, i guess your answer to that is wait another gazillion years and we'll see a flea turn into a tick.
I believe that the creatures created by God make physiological changes based on their environment, but it seems like Darwin took that concept and ran with it a little to far..
How can someone say that evolution is any more real than creation?
"You have posed a very good question. Was creation a litteral 7 day event? It has been debated as long as I can remember.
First we need to consider who was this Creator? Of course every Christian who belives in the bible will readly agree that it was God Himself. Lets look at some the charector attributes of God. He is perfect. All knowing. Knows the end from the begining. Is a God of love. Cares about mankind as His children. Knows every sparrow that falls & cares about all His creation. Now lets read the account of creation as given in the Bible. As we go through the account of creation, God validates each day by the saying that the evening and the morning constituted each day. When we know somthing about the charector and nature of God, as well as what He has given us in His Word, the Bible, it would make God less than perfect and even a lier, if it were not a litteral 7 day week. You will notice the rational given is from a bibical viewpoint. I say from a biblical viewpoint because it is from the Bible that we get the definition of faith, and faith must be used to accept any of the account of creation, as well as any other concept or theory. (I might suggest reading Heb.Ch.11 the faith chapter.) It must also be noted that if there is no belief in all, or any part, of the creation story, there is no reason to debate the fine points of it.
Now lets look at the 7 day creation from a solely from a rational, logical, point of view bassed on what we can decuct from the sequence of events during creation. Forgive me if I take just a slight detour from what might be considered the standard account of creation before I address the the 7 days events themselves. In Gen.1:1-2, we read; "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness WAS upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." As I read this passage it becomes very clear to me that the finite cannot comprehind the infinate. It makes it very clear that God was here from the beginning. But it simply does not give a start date for creation. Therefore the argument that our current dateing systems showing some geologic rock to be millions or even billions of years old disproves the creation story, is completly invalid. We can't possibily know when this mass that was without form and void, now called earth, was created. It is not neccessary to include this bit of interest when diccussing a 7 day creation, but it might help those who doubt any part of the account of creation.
Lets start with Day #1: As we read the biblical account of creation in Gen. Ch.1, we find the first day God created light. As we look around us there is one common denominator amoung all all living creaturs. They ALL require light to exist. I know that some will challenge that statement perhaps giving as an example life forms that live in complete darkness at the bottom of the seas. Eventhough those life forms that may be thousands of feet deep they are still linked in their food chains to activaties and creatures at the surface that require light. Therefore God created light first in order to support all life. Also note that God Himself "...called the light day and the darkness night, and said that the evening and the morning were the first DAY!"
Day #2: Gen. 1:6; "And God said let there be firmamant." Wheather Christian or atheist we all accept the term firmamant to mean our atmosphere. He also "...divided the waters that were under the earth from the firmament above the earth." In the account of the second day God creates an atmosphere that would require light to recycle water upon the earth. God did keep the order of creation's events in sequence so that they would harmonize and function to meet the needs of all life that He was yet to create.
Day #3: Next came the creation of dry land which was followed by the creation of all plant life which of course needed the light, the firmament, and the land to survive.
Day#4: Gen.1:14-16; "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: HE made the stares also." The account of God creating the sun, moon, and stars is usually accepted by Christians without much thought. It also should be noted that not only did He create a world wide alarm clock, but also gave us a first glimpse at his future relationship with mankind through prophecy. You will note that the first use God appointed to these lights was for signs. Here again God comes first, and everything else comes second!
Day #5: Now that God has planed the georaphy of the earth, which include seperating water from dry land, He now creates all the sea creaturs and all the birds of the air. This seeming inconsistant bit of creation, sea creatures created on the same day as birds, is often pointed out by noncreationest. They simply are not thinking about the water birds. It seems to me that the Creator did indeed keep things in order.
Day#6: Now that now all the support systems needed to sustain mammalian life have been put in place. God now creates all land forms of life;"...and saw that it was good." After looking over what had been created, God now decides to create the very pinical of His creation. "And God said let us make man in our image, after our likeness:" Please note the pronouns us and our. It would clearly indicate the involvement of Christ as well as God the Father in creation. "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created He them....And God saw everything that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Once again God tells us that He did this final act of creating things and beings in one day.
Day #7: This was God's rest day. It was the only day of the creation week that God did not create. Rather, "God blessed the seventh day and santified it: because that in it He rested from all His work which God created and made."
As you can see there was a need for the orderly sequence of creation for each subsequent act of creation to survive. Also if it were untold millions of years, or for that matter even just a few years, all life as we know it today could not have survived. God also set us an example by doing His work and then resting. The sequince of work, and then rest, is vital for our best health. How many people do you know who are stressed out because of not enough rest. Or maybe someone is a work-a-holic, has health problems, and the doctors tell them to get more rest.
I hope that this view of creation will be of help in understanding the NEED for a literal 7 day creation.
May God bless you, and the Holy Spirit lead you as you study God's Word.
Respectfully, your friend and brother in Christ,
Doc
How can someone say that evolution is any more real than creation?
Just like I haven't seen God and believe in Him, you haven't seen anything evolve lately, but you still believe. Oh, i guess your answer to that is wait another gazillion years and we'll see a flea turn into a tick.
I believe that the creatures created by God make physiological changes based on their environment, but it seems like Darwin took that concept and ran with it a little to far..
This is still just a statement of faith based off the belief that the bible is infallible. There is nothing logical about it.OH ME, OH MY!!! What a discussion!
May I suggest to all who have posted here that there is one element that has been overlooked by all. That element is LOGIC. I say this with a fairly good understanding of both creation and evolution. I also say this with a fairly good understanding of human nature.
It should be noted that neither viewpoint can be proven by observation. Observation is a required component for a scientific study as defined in the world of academia by academic definition. Therefore I will not attempt to present my thoughts as a doctorial presentation. Rather, I will share somthing with you that I once shared with a young man who ask if creation was indeed done in seven litteral days who claimed to be a Christian. I must also tell you that for me personaly to accept any theory, or teaching, it must be logical.
Respectfully,
Doc
Lord put your arms around my sholders and your hand over my mouth.
thecountrydoc said:I say this with a fairly good understanding of both creation and evolution.
May I suggest to all who have posted here that there is one element that has been overlooked by all. That element is LOGIC. I say this with a fairly good understanding of both creation and evolution. I also say this with a fairly good understanding of human nature.
It should be noted that neither viewpoint can be proven by observation. Observation is a required component for a scientific study as defined in the world of academia by academic definition. Therefore I will not attempt to present my thoughts as a doctorial presentation. Rather, I will share somthing with you that I once shared with a young man who ask if creation was indeed done in seven litteral days who claimed to be a Christian. I must also tell you that for me personaly to accept any theory, or teaching, it must be logical.
Respectfully,
Doc
Lord put your arms around my sholders and your hand over my mouth.
This is wrong. Organisms around deep sea vents are independant of solar energy. The food source at the base of the food chain is bacteria that utlize H2S from the vents.Lets start with Day #1: As we read the biblical account of creation in Gen. Ch.1, we find the first day God created light. As we look around us there is one common denominator amoung all all living creaturs. They ALL require light to exist. I know that some will challenge that statement perhaps giving as an example life forms that live in complete darkness at the bottom of the seas. Eventhough those life forms that may be thousands of feet deep they are still linked in their food chains to activaties and creatures at the surface that require light. Therefore God created light first in order to support all life.
This was a fairly fundamental discovery, because this was the first very well defined ecosystem, and very elaborate ecosystem, that was completely independent of sunlight at any level of the food chain.
I don't think we all know that but some people do think that may be the case. I am not so sure.And as we all know (well, the evolutionists, anyway) it was organisms which first developed to metabolise stuff at the bottom of the ocean - i.e. independent of the sun - which started off life at all, and started changing the atmosphere into what we know and breathe today.
OH ME, OH MY!!! What a discussion!
May I suggest to all who have posted here that there is one element that has been overlooked by all. That element is LOGIC. I say this with a fairly good understanding of both creation and evolution. I also say this with a fairly good understanding of human nature.
.Day #3: Next came the creation of dry land which was followed by the creation of all plant life which of course needed the light, the firmament, and the land to survive.
It should be noted that neither viewpoint can be proven by observation. Observation is a required component for a scientific study as defined in the world of academia by academic definition.
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