Evolution via random mutations is impossible

Brightmoon · Jul 15, 2018

Hovind is an ignorant moron . planets and moons spin backwards because they were knocked into those rotations by moonlets and asteroids hitting them. He tries to make his hypothetical scientist look stupid when a first year astronomy student could have answered most of those

SkyWriting · Jul 15, 2018

AnotherAtheist said:
I have re-read my post that you quoted and read your reply, and I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Can you please explain.

Becasue nothing is random, then it cannot be
used as an explanation for anything.

At least not till you get the the quantum level of existence.
Then things get weird.

SkyWriting · Jul 15, 2018

Speedwell said:
Random means simply "predictable by no known algorithm*" and many phenomena fit that description.

*Sokolnikov & Redheffer, The Mathematics of Physics and Modern Engineering (a standard handbook in my day).

Which ones?
Becasue a girlfriend of mine who's father
investigated engineering failure in airline crashes
said there was no such thing.

NBB · Jul 15, 2018

'Random mutation', reminds me of this thing in computing: Garbage in garbage out, you can't get a biological machine like the human body from random changes.
And don't tell me evolution isn't random because, listen, the source of change it is random! even if there something else at work like natural selection.

Speedwell · Jul 15, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Which ones?

Flip a coin.

Becasue a girlfriend of mine who's father
investigated engineering failure in airline crashes
said there was no such thing.

That's quite an authoritative source. You don't even know what he meant by "random." Did he mean "unplanned" or "uncaused?" Or was he using the scientific definition?

Justatruthseeker · Jul 15, 2018

Speedwell said:
Flip a coin.
That's quite an authoritative source. You don't even know what he meant by "random." Did he mean "unplanned" or "uncaused?" Or was he using the scientific definition?

Well we know life isn't caused by random mutations then if we follow the scientific definition of randomness, since they claim both a pattern and predictability in the overall scheme.

I just love this example they always give.

"For example, when throwing two dice, the outcome of any particular roll is unpredictable, but a sum of 7 will occur twice as often as 4. In this view, randomness is a measure of uncertainty of an outcome, rather than haphazardness, and applies to concepts of chance, probability, and information entropy."

Lets see. 4 can only be obtained by 1 & 3 or 2 & 2.

But 7 can be obtained by 4 & 3, 5 and 2, or 6 and 1. So seven is expected to occur more often than 4. I can predict with certainty that 7 will occur more times than 4.

Speedwell · Jul 15, 2018

Justatruthseeker said:
Well we know life isn't caused by random mutations then if we follow the scientific definition of randomness, since they claim both a pattern and predictability in the overall scheme.

I just love this example they always give.

"For example, when throwing two dice, the outcome of any particular roll is unpredictable, but a sum of 7 will occur twice as often as 4. In this view, randomness is a measure of uncertainty of an outcome, rather than haphazardness, and applies to concepts of chance, probability, and information entropy."

Lets see. 4 can only be obtained by 1 & 3 or 2 & 2.

But 7 can be obtained by 4 & 3, 5 and 2, or 6 and 1. So seven is expected to occur more often than 4. I can predict with certainty that 7 will occur more times than 4.

Can you predict what the next roll will be? That's the point.

Justatruthseeker · Jul 15, 2018

Speedwell said:
Can you predict what the next roll will be? That's the point.

But a random process does not have the odds of seven being more available than 4. In a random process the odds of each occurring would be exactly the same. With dice the odds of 7 happening more than 4 is not random.

Now take T, C, G and A. The odds that any one if placed in a new order will create a functioning code is no greater than any other. The odds that it will then function in cooperation with other existing codes increases. Even switching one letter is totally random. Even with statistical analysis unlike 4 and 7, one has no greater chance of success.

SkyWriting · Jul 15, 2018

Justatruthseeker said:
Well we know life isn't caused by random mutations then if we follow the scientific definition of randomness, since they claim both a pattern and predictability in the overall scheme.

I just love this example they always give.

"For example, when throwing two dice, the outcome of any particular roll is unpredictable, but a sum of 7 will occur twice as often as 4. In this view, randomness is a measure of uncertainty of an outcome, rather than haphazardness, and applies to concepts of chance, probability, and information entropy."

Lets see. 4 can only be obtained by 1 & 3 or 2 & 2.

But 7 can be obtained by 4 & 3, 5 and 2, or 6 and 1. So seven is expected to occur more often than 4. I can predict with certainty that 7 will occur more times than 4.

-Meaning-
When you examine the forces involved, then you can predict
the roll of a die 100% of the time. That was pretty close
to her example.

SkyWriting · Jul 15, 2018

Speedwell said:
Random means simply "predictable by no known algorithm*" and many phenomena fit that description.

*Sokolnikov & Redheffer, The Mathematics of Physics and Modern Engineering (a standard handbook in my day).

A list please.

NBB · Jul 15, 2018

But why the outcome needs to resemble what we know animals and humans in such a way? it can be anything, i say nothing actually because random changes can't construct anything.

Justatruthseeker · Jul 16, 2018

NBB said:
But why the outcome needs to resemble what we know animals and humans in such a way? it can be anything, i say nothing actually because random changes can't construct anything.

Why they think it would create even the complex single celled organism is useless conjecture, let alone man.

The outcome resembles what we see today not because their is any prediction that this is the outcome, but because that is what we see.

They need it to be so, so therefore it is....

You might as well believe that if I took all the parts that make up a mechanical watch, place them in a box and shook the box, that eventually I would get a fully functioning watch capable of keeping accurate time.

Well, they can believe that if they like, but I'll pass......

Speedwell · Jul 16, 2018

Justatruthseeker said:
You might as well believe that if I took all the parts that make up a mechanical watch, place them in a box and shook the box, that eventually I would get a fully functioning watch capable of keeping accurate time.

Do you actually believe that is analogous to evolution, or are you just lying?

Jimmy D · Jul 16, 2018

Justatruthseeker said:
Well, they can believe that if they like, but I'll pass......

Just remind us of an alternative again.

Ophiolite · Jul 16, 2018

SkyWriting said:
A list please.

Your the one with a degree in Librarianship, who claims to be adept at researching material. I'm sure you can provide your own within minutes. Or do you describe to the notion that what you don't believe in is invisible?

Did I just see a naked Emperor pass by?

SkyWriting · Jul 16, 2018

Ophiolite said:
Your the one with a degree in Librarianship, who claims to be adept at researching material. I'm sure you can provide your own within minutes. Or do you describe to the notion that what you don't believe in is invisible?

Did I just see a naked Emperor pass by?

I already said, outside of quantum particles, nothing is random.
So there is no list of random anything.
People are ignorant.....and that's what we call "random."
But random does not exist.

Ophiolite · Jul 16, 2018

SkyWriting said:
I already said, outside of quantum particles, nothing is random.
So there is no list of random anything.

And there goes the Emperor.

SkyWriting · Jul 16, 2018

Ophiolite said:
And there goes the Emperor.

That was my initial claim that "random" does not exist.
I've rechecked the topic many times.

SkyWriting · Jul 16, 2018

Speedwell said:
Can you predict what the next roll will be? That's the point.

If you know the forces involved...then 100% of the time.

Brightmoon · Jul 16, 2018

You can’t predict the outcome of a dice roll but the results are constrained to a few outcomes. There are three ways to get 4 and six ways to get a 7 with 2 dice

Evolution via random mutations is impossible

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

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Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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