Evolution true or false?

[ForeRunner]

nope. Since you assumed that we are illsuited to walk on two legs, I wonder if you think we are meant to walk? Sort of if you were given a hammer, were you meant to use it as a knife.

Yes.

If you were told to cut a cantelope into five pieces and given a hammer, you could do it, if would just be much harder, less efficient, and messier than with a knife.

 

[Split Rock]

How do poeple feel about this. I think it is foundless myself.

What do you base this conclusion on?

 

[kingreaper]

Personally, I believe in the appearance of age creation theory. My bible say God created Adam a man. Not a boy, but a man. He says of Eve she is a woman, and speaks of marriage. They appeared to have age, but had none. So why can't the earth have characteristics that cause it to appear older than it really is? Why couldn't the earth appear to be millions or billions of years old, the day it was created? Ah the wisdom of God that confounds the natural man.

To qoute someone or other

did Adam and eve have scars bruises and memories from before they were created?

Did tey have any evidence of having existed prior to creation that was not useful?

 

[Split Rock]

Personally, I believe in the appearance of age creation theory. My bible say God created Adam a man. Not a boy, but a man. He says of Eve she is a woman, and speaks of marriage. They appeared to have age, but had none. So why can't the earth have characteristics that cause it to appear older than it really is? Why couldn't the earth appear to be millions or billions of years old, the day it was created? Ah the wisdom of God that confounds the natural man.

My theory is that the earth and all life on it was created 15 minutes ago. All your memories previous to 15 min ago are artificial constructs of the Giant Omnipotent Purple Cucumber that lives on Mars.

Tell me.. couldn't that be true? Can you Prove I am wrong?

 

[Split Rock]

Let me add, that evolution requires an old earth. However, science tells us that the earth is young. Not enough space dust has been collected for the earth to be here as long as required for the old age earth evolution myths to be true. There are a myriad of other reasons, that's just one.

Why do you call all the evidence for a very old Earth (which also fits with all the evidence for an even older Universe) a "myth?" Do you think that by calling it that you make it all go away? Are you even familar with this evidence?

 

[kingreaper]

I will allow that I'm not expert in this area, and don't have the resources at my fingertips to respond directly to your statement. That said, name one documented change of species. Just one. Show where any living creature changed from one type of creature to another (in real life, not on star trek), other than your mere speculation. Will you allow that the appearance of age creation theory answers every last one of your claims? If not, please state which claims it wouldn't answer, and why.

Unfortunately for you, appearance of age allows any type of creation

IE the IPU could have made the world last thursday (to mix mockings)

And it requires you to provide some justification for God to lie with his creation

 

[OneManSows]

A real live example of specitation in North American Salamanders, you can take a walk and SEE evolution happen from species to species:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/05/2/l_052_05.html

From the site itself: "They are as distinct as though they were two separate species." There is no claim of change of species here, only a claim of mutation within the species.

Oh, and here is another, the British Gull:

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/ring_species.html

Let me know how the trip goes, ok?

"But in Britain, the two ends of the circle are two different species of bird. The two ends do not interbreed: they think that they are two different species." Are they still birds, herring gulls being sub species?

"There are seven recognized subspecies of this salamander" Are they not all still salamanders?

Talk to me about a fish becoming a turtle, or a bird becoming a bear, or a dog becoming a cat or a horse, not variations within a species.

 

[kedaman]

Yes.

If you were told to cut a cantelope into five pieces and given a hammer, you could do it, if would just be much harder, less efficient, and messier than with a knife.

Can you come up with a reason for why we should walk, or is walking the end?

 

[Silent Bob]

My theory is that the earth and all life on it was created 15 minutes ago. All your memories previous to 15 min ago are artificial constructs of the Giant Omnipotent Purple Cucumber that lives on Mars.

Tell me.. couldn't that be true? Can you Prove I am wrong?

Hehe the Omphalos hypothesis. What a great example of extreme creationist "science". Love it...

Btw can anyone offer a theory as to why most Creationists fail to understand evolution theory? I mean my scientific background is far off biology but I still can understand what is being said. Should education be held at blame or intentional ingnorance?

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

From the site itself: "They are as distinct as though they were two separate species." There is no claim of change of species here, only a claim of mutation within the species.

If they are as distinct as two seperate species, why are they not two seperate species?

"But in Britain, the two ends of the circle are two different species of bird. The two ends do not interbreed: they think that they are two different species." Are they still birds, herring gulls being sub species?

Nope. Two different species. But they merge.

"There are seven recognized subspecies of this salamander" Are they not all still salamanders?

Shploop!

Talk to me about a fish becoming a turtle, or a bird becoming a bear, or a dog becoming a cat or a horse, not variations within a species.

Yes, folks, that "Shploop!" you heard was the sound of goalposts being moved. You wanted speciation, we gave you speciation*. Now you say that wasn't good enough, and you want changes at the Order level.

So let me get this straight. You want changes, observable within a human lifespan, of changes at the Order level, which evolution predicts do not happen in this timescale. Tell me, exactly, in what convoluted logic seeing something not predicted by the theory would confirm the theory for you?

To see the sorts of change you want, you need to look over long lineages of fossils covering millions of years. I'm willing to find them for you IF:

(1) You promise to take a blind bit of notice of them
(2) You admit what's in front of you once it has been presented
(3) You don't move the goalposts again.

*And we can give you more - http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

 

[Split Rock]

Talk to me about a fish becoming a turtle, or a bird becoming a bear, or a dog becoming a cat or a horse, not variations within a species.

Scientists do not make any of these claims... in fact, if this were the case, it would DISPROVE evolutionary theory!

A real of example of speciation is the diversification of cichlid fishes in Africa. (see: Science. 2003 Apr 11;300(5617):325-9. Epub 2003 Mar 20.)

Lake Victoria harbors a unique species-rich flock of more than 500 endemic haplochromine cichlid fishes. .. On the basis of phylogenetic analyses of almost 300 DNA sequences of the mitochondrial control region of East African cichlids, we find that the Lake Victoria cichlid flock is derived from the geologically older Lake Kivu. We suggest that the two seeding lineages may have already been lake-adapted when they colonized Lake Victoria. A haplotype analysis further shows that the most recent desiccation of Lake Victoria did not lead to a complete extinction of its endemic cichlid fauna and that the major lineage diversification took place about 100,000 years ago.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Simply false.

Okay, I'll give you a free example.

My knees are creaky and bad, because I'm in my 30s. But they work okay for bipedal motion... But they're not really perfectly suited to it.

My cat's knees aren't creaky, but they're tolerably well adapted to quadrupedal motion. He can walk on his back legs for about a foot, if he really has to.

Obviously, we have very different legs.

So why do we have exactly the same joint structure?

Because we were built from the same model.

If God were just poofing us into existence, this would be shoddy workmanship, at best. But if it's evolution, it makes sense, and we know why it happened, and can even guess about when.

If you are going to talk about how Gods workmanship would be if he just poofed everthing into existance, You must first understand that God knows the action and reaction fully before even taking the action, so God could indeed "poof" everthing into existance since all posable troubleshooting is preknown. Yes it could work perfectly, but we as humans do not have perect knowlege and truth, thus we destroy ourselves, and the world along with us.

 

[Ondoher]

From the site itself: "They are as distinct as though they were two separate species." There is no claim of change of species here, only a claim of mutation within the species.

"But in Britain, the two ends of the circle are two different species of bird. The two ends do not interbreed: they think that they are two different species." Are they still birds, herring gulls being sub species?

"There are seven recognized subspecies of this salamander" Are they not all still salamanders?

Talk to me about a fish becoming a turtle, or a bird becoming a bear, or a dog becoming a cat or a horse, not variations within a species.

If plate techtonics is true, show a continent ripping in two and dashing across the ocean, not just inching apart yearly.

Evolution does not claim that one should witness a bird becoming a bear, nor a dog becoming a horse. Seeing such an event would disprove evolution, not prove it. With evolution you expect to see things like ring species and small speciation events. Over time, such divergence leads to things like the separation of dogs and bears and humans and chimps.

 

[Freodin]

If you are going to talk about how Gods workmanship would be if he just poofed everthing into existance, You must first understand that God knows the action and reaction fully before even taking the action, so God could indeed "poof" everthing into existance since all posable troubleshooting is preknown. Yes it could work perfectly, but we as humans do not have perect knowlege and truth, thus we destroy ourselves, and the world along with us.

And how do you propose we changed the structure of our knee-joints? By sinning?

Would you care to explain how coveting your neighbours cattle changes your anatomy?

 

[OneManSows]

Did you fail to notice the contradictory language use by the author of the site? In one case he calls the birds distinct species. Then he say they just think they are a different species. Then option number 3 pops up when he says that there are subspecies of a salamanders. So then, they are different species, or just think they are different species, or they are subspecies. Well, that certainly makes for a valid definitive claim for change of species. The problem is there are raging gaps in between species, and no fossil evidence can support your claims.

This also raises another question. If the little fossil evidence evolutionists point to is as old as claimed, how can they turn around and claim that the crust of the earth is being assimilated on one side while added to from the other, and not cause a contradiction of their own claims?

 

[ForeRunner]

Can you come up with a reason for why we should walk, or is walking the end?

If you didn't walk you'd starve to death. Sounds like a good reason to me.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Scientists do not make any of these claims... in fact, if this were the case, it would DISPROVE evolutionary theory!

A real of example of speciation is the diversification of cichlid fishes in Africa. (see: Science. 2003 Apr 11;300(5617):325-9. Epub 2003 Mar 20.)

Exaclty, scientist have found the of the complete DNA strand, some of it is doramate. When a simple bug was studied it was found that the bugs DNA strand was ready and able to adapt in a way that would change it's apearence. If creation was formed to adapt like this, who's to say that the "different spiecies" that are claimed to have become another where not that first spiecies, just dramaticly different in form and function? Humans for example lived a much more rugged life 5000 years ago they needed stronger bodies to deal with the life style, but as time passed and knowlege increased, they didn't need such sturdy bodies, or as much hair.(for warmth) Expaditionist find bones of old humans and because the bones are thicker and the brain is smaller that supposedly means that evolution is supported, because the structure of the body closely resembled an ape. I think this same evedence only further supports creationism, because it shows how the God incripted information can adapt to certian enviromental or lifestyle changes. Humans have a very different level of inteligance when compared to any animal, we where not apes we where humans. Apes will not become humans, they will stay apes, no matter how much one looks like the other, or how much time passes.

 

[leoj]

My theory is that the earth and all life on it was created 15 minutes ago. All your memories previous to 15 min ago are artificial constructs of the Giant Omnipotent Purple Cucumber that lives on Mars.

Tell me.. couldn't that be true? Can you Prove I am wrong?

If you want to know the truth, that can be disproved. How are there videos of things that you have done, before????????

Hehe the Omphalos hypothesis. What a great example of extreme creationist "science". Love it...

How is that weird theory anything like 'extreme creationist "science".'

For one thing, That 15 min theory is easy to prove wrong. Creationism IS NOT! !

 

[Zen_Woof]

How do poeple feel about this. I think it is foundless myself.

Greetings.

It is highly probable. Otherwise, genetic manipulation would not work, line breeding in animals would not work ... lots of things wouldn't work, including antiviral agents and vaccines.

Here's a nice little summary from PBS ... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/change/family/index.html

With metta,
Zenda

 

[jesusfreak3786]

And how do you propose we changed the structure of our knee-joints? By sinning?

Would you care to explain how coveting your neighbours cattle changes your anatomy?

Yes acualy I will. There was an article in times not to long ago that explained that scientist found that certian states of mind release certian chemicals in the brain that are harmfull to your body. For instance they found that poeple with cronic depresion release a chemical that couses arthrightes(can't spell sorry) thus destoying joins including the knee joint. Hope this is satisfactory. Oh yeah I forgot if the knee joints are in bad shape and causing fucional problems this could cause adaptation in that area. Changing the knee joint structure.