Evolution - the illusion of a scientific theory

[USincognito]

I thought the tree of life was diputed. When they say it is really more of a bush or hedge they are talking about there being a lot more sideways movement in the passing of genes.

As has been noted. This applies to beings that have more capacity for HGT. In beings where HGT is more difficult (like almost all of Animalia) the tree still stands.

 

[USincognito]

As for the animals, we know that He is the giver of life.
Psalm 36:9New Century Version (NCV)

9 You are the giver of life.
Your light lets us enjoy life.

That's nice.

 

[USincognito]

I find it kind of funny when someone thinks humans are animals.

Well. We're not Bacteria, Archaea, Plants, Fungi, Amoebae, Rhizaria, etc.

 

[JacksBratt]

That's nice.

Again, this was not directed to you. Why would I support an argument with an atheist by referencing the Holy Bible. A text that they don't deem credible.

This was directed to Paul of Eugene who states that they are Baptist. Last time I attended a Baptist church they believed the Bible was the word of God.

 

[USincognito]

Again, this was not directed to you. Why would I support an argument with an atheist by referencing the Holy Bible. A text that they don't deem credible.

This was directed to Paul of Eugene who states that they are Baptist. Last time I attended a Baptist church they believed the Bible was the word of God.

Then why did you quote me when you responded thusly? If it was a simple error like multi-quoting and excising the wrong quote, I understand.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Again, this was not directed to you. Why would I support an argument with an atheist by referencing the Holy Bible. A text that they don't deem credible.

This was directed to Paul of Eugene who states that they are Baptist. Last time I attended a Baptist church they believed the Bible was the word of God.

Paul isn't a fundamentalist though, he doesn't take the bible completely literally

 

[stevevw]

Horizontal gene transfer is much more prevalent among unicellular organisms, and does make distinguishing lines of descent more difficult for these species. It is also hypothesized that it was very prevalent among the early forms of life, thus making for more of a pool of earliest common ancestors, rather than a single earliest common ancestor.

It is also more prevelent in animals than first thought. But there is also a case for cross breeding as well especially earlier on when species may have been able to mate successfully more often. This can also blur ancestral lines as creatures could create new types of animals through cross mating.

Horizontal gene transfer is increasingly described between bacteria and animals. Such transfers that are vertically inherited have the potential to influence the evolution of animals.
Horizontal gene transfer between bacteria and animals

Genetic analysis in the Collaborative Cross breed... [Genome Res. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

Transduction by viruses works in eukaryotic organisms as well. The discovery that large blocks of genetic instructions can be swapped and transferred among creatures is a clue that the insertion of new genes could be the mechanism behind evolutionary advances. If viruses can transfer eukaryotic genes across species boundaries, and can install their own genes into their hosts, the case for the new mechanism is even stronger. As we will see, viruses do just that.
Viruses and Other Gene Transfer Mechanisms. by Brig Klyce

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Again, this was not directed to you. Why would I support an argument with an atheist by referencing the Holy Bible. A text that they don't deem credible.

This was directed to Paul of Eugene who states that they are Baptist. Last time I attended a Baptist church they believed the Bible was the word of God.

I also believe the universe is God's word directly expressed, and we need to interpret scripture to be consistent with the universe.

 

[JacksBratt]

Then why did you quote me when you responded thusly? If it was a simple error like multi-quoting and excising the wrong quote, I understand.

Exactly, I, myself, was unaware that I quoted the wrong poster. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[JacksBratt]

I also believe the universe is God's word directly expressed, and we need to interpret scripture to be consistent with the universe.

I believe we must interpret the universe to be consistent with the word of God. If I see something in the universe that seems out of line with the scripture, rest assured time will show you that the scripture will always be right.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I believe we must interpret the universe to be consistent with the word of God. If I see something in the universe that seems out of line with the scripture, rest assured time will show you that the scripture will always be right.

So you agree with Luther when he stated Copernicus had to be wrong, asserting that the earth rotates as the cause of day and night? After all, scripture states it is the sun that halted its movement.

 

[JacksBratt]

So you agree with Luther when he stated Copernicus had to be wrong, asserting that the earth rotates as the cause of day and night? After all, scripture states it is the sun that halted its movement.

"The sun stood still and the moon halted"

This is where you are going to draw a battle line?

13And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

If saw this and wrote to my buddy "Hey, the sun stopped in the sky. You should'a seen it. The moon stopped too" You would run over me and say "well, technically, the sun doesn't move.... we rotate"

This passage was not meant to state that the earth was the center of the universe.

Genesis is written specifically to describe how the universe came to be.

For you. How do you explain the direct and specific scripture describing how God made Adam and Eve and personally breathed the breath of life into Adam to make him a living being.

When I read this I cannot help but believe it was inspired by the Holy Spirit and written this exact way for this exact argument.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

"The sun stood still and the moon halted"

This is where you are going to draw a battle line?

13And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

If saw this and wrote to my buddy "Hey, the sun stopped in the sky. You should'a seen it. The moon stopped too" You would run over me and say "well, technically, the sun doesn't move.... we rotate"

This passage was not meant to state that the earth was the center of the universe.

Genesis is written specifically to describe how the universe came to be.

For you. How do you explain the direct and specific scripture describing how God made Adam and Eve and personally breathed the breath of life into Adam to make him a living being.

When I read this I cannot help but believe it was inspired by the Holy Spirit and written this exact way for this exact argument.

See how easy it is to reinterpret the literal words? You do it before our very eyes.

Now take the days of creation . . . the yoms . . . and consider them to be periods, and stop thinking of them as necessarily consecutive, but topical . . . and you have reconciled Genesis 1 with evolution!

Just as easy.

There's nothing to stop you except your own stubborn rejection of God's evidence, left behind in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes.

 

[JacksBratt]

See how easy it is to reinterpret the literal words? You do it before our very eyes.

Now take the days of creation . . . the yoms . . . and consider them to be periods, and stop thinking of them as necessarily consecutive, but topical . . . and you have reconciled Genesis 1 with evolution!

Just as easy.

There's nothing to stop you except your own stubborn rejection of God's evidence, left behind in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes.

I don't see anything here about Adam, the breath of life, Eve and a Rib.
Let's see how this is reinterpreted.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I don't see anything here about Adam, the breath of life, Eve and a Rib.
Let's see how this is reinterpreted.

Take Adam as an avatar, the chosen representative of the new race God is bringing into being; perhaps chosen because he, first among men, contemplated eternity. You can put him in the garden and take Eve from his side.

Once he is banished from the garden, you can allow for his concepts of eternity to awaken the rest of the species into spiritual (although fallen) life.

The oral history of these events become the stories we have in Genesis.

That's one way. Want to hear another?

 

[Dizredux]

I believe we must interpret the universe to be consistent with the word of God. If I see something in the universe that seems out of line with the scripture, rest assured time will show you that the scripture will always be right.

God gave us two testiments the Bible and his works, the universe that he made.

I find it hard to understand how one can accept one and reject the other.

Since God's truth cannot contradict Gods truth so it is our understanding of these truths that may limited.

Our interpretation of Gods word may be an issue, our understanding of his works or most likely both.

I suspect that in time this will be reconciled in the fullness of time both our understanding of scripture and God's works. Both testaments will be reconciled.

The battles over the term "kind" are a a good example. Now science and the Bible agree, all life reproduces according to its kind with descendents of vertebrates always being vertebrates, tetrapods always being tetrapods, mammals always being mammals and so on.

Simple when we finally come to understand it.

Just my thoughts,

Dizredux

 

[JacksBratt]

Take Adam as an avatar, the chosen representative of the new race God is bringing into being; perhaps chosen because he, first among men, contemplated eternity. You can put him in the garden and take Eve from his side.

Once he is banished from the garden, you can allow for his concepts of eternity to awaken the rest of the species into spiritual (although fallen) life.

The oral history of these events become the stories we have in Genesis.

That's one way. Want to hear another?

Ya sure. This is very educational to see how people can take a simple, very explicit description and stretch it into what you just described.

I am more interested in what shape you can stretch this scripture....

John 11

40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?” 41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying.[d] And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42 And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.” 43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!” 44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”


There are times when scripture is record of actual events, like the account of Adam and Eve and the account of Lazarus. What is your interpretation of this one.

 

[JacksBratt]

God gave us two testiments the Bible and his works, the universe that he made.

I find it hard to understand how one can accept one and reject the other.

Since God's truth cannot contradict Gods truth so it is our understanding of these truths that may limited.

Our interpretation of Gods word may be an issue, our understanding of his works or most likely both.

I suspect that in time this will be reconciled in the fullness of time both our understanding of scripture and God's works. Both testaments will be reconciled.

The battles over the term "kind" are a a good example. Now science and the Bible agree, all life reproduces according to its kind with descendents of vertebrates always being vertebrates, tetrapods always being tetrapods, mammals always being mammals and so on.

Simple when we finally come to understand it.

Just my thoughts,

Dizredux

Does God not have the ability and power to create the universe exactly as it is written? Is the genesis description of the events of the creation of the universe outside God's ability. Is it a description of events that would be impossible for God?

You say that in time this will be reconciled. However, there is a large camp that will hide, cover, destroy and ignore any artifact, evidence or scientific discovery that they cannot fit into the ever changing theory of evolution.

We have seen this with even the simple coverup of data that was contradicting the "global warming" farce. Men panic when their statements are disproven. Instead of following truth, they cover it up and continue in the wrong direction so they don't expose the fact that they were wrong.

People are covering up and ignoring the fact that the speed of light has been continuously slowing down. There is lots of articles from Christian sites and non Christian sites that state this fact. Yet, when a scientist with education and accreditation goes public to present it as a fact...they are shredded by their peers. Why would anyone risk this sort of global humiliation? Loss of jobs, loss of respect, loss of apparent credibility?

The farce of evolution is held so tight and has such far reaching consequences and ramifications if it was ever proven wrong that men and women of supposed integrity cannot bring themselves to present any damning evidence.

You see this passage;

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

And are so unfounded on the scripture that you can convince yourself that that is not a literal description of the creation of the first man. The reason... if this was literal..... evolution dies.

Well, as far as I am concerned, God created the universe exactly as it is stated. God did this in six days. God rested. He is so powerful that this was not outside His ability.

When you meet Him, you can tell Him "well I didn't think you could do it like you said"!

 

[Dizredux]

Does God not have the ability and power to create the universe exactly as it is written? Is the genesis description of the events of the creation of the universe outside God's ability. Is it a description of events that would be impossible for God?

Nothing is impossible for God but I am not going to put myself into position where I tell God what to do. I am not going to say that God must follow my interpretation of the Bible.

Paranoid ideation cut.

Well, as far as I am concerned, God created the universe exactly as it is stated. God did this in six days. God rested. He is so powerful that this was not outside His ability.

Again, I am not about to tell God how he had to have done it.

When you meet Him, you can tell Him "well I didn't think you could do it like you said"!

And what are you going to do when you are asked "Why did you tell lies in my name?"

Dizredux

 

[JacksBratt]

Nothing is impossible for God but I am not going to put myself into position where I tell God what to do. I am not going to say that God must follow my interpretation of the Bible.

Paranoid ideation cut.

Again, I am not about to tell God how he had to have done it.

And what are you going to do when you are asked "Why did you tell lies in my name?"

Dizredux

If God wants to chastise me for telling people that, in His Word, which He calls truth,

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,




John 17:17

Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.



He says that He formed Adam from the dust and breathed life into him and he became a living being. And that for this reason I believe that humans did not evolve from other life forms and that He created everything in six literal days......


Then, I guess, I'll take what punishment He sees as just.

You, can then tell Him that when He said all these things that you just thought He sorta didn't mean it that way.