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Evolution - Speciation finally observed in the wild?

Justatruthseeker

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Well I’m actually looking forward to the next post... very well articulated.

Oh but one small mistake. Not yours, I realize it’s their presumption, but genetic data can’t infer relationship as we have no genetic data for much beyond today’s species with but maybe 6 samples.
 
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pshun2404

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Lufengpithecus chiangmuanensis from Thailand reckoned to be an ancestor of Orangutans allegedly existed about 10 – 13.6 mya. This was final confirmation of the long held belief that Apes (that became Gorillas and Orangutans) originated and came out of Asia. The split had previously been believed to have happened about 8 mya (the chimp human split occurring about 6 mya as this clade depicts). Only now we have found indications of Gorillas (Chororapithecus abyssinicus) in Africa from 10 – 12 mya (What?) and the whole house of cards comes falling down and now we even have to correct the textbooks (What? Not really uncommon) but sadly many generations are already brainwashed. Will they admit they were wr-wr-wrong? NO! But surely this clade is....
 
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pshun2404

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Always...it is a strong double standard but I usually only find this among atheists who post on these forums, not scientists I have actually spoke with (most are more open minded to possibility when you get them one on one and not in the public forum).
 
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pshun2404

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Shhh! They have already made up their minds so do not confuse them with the facts.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Oh yes, I’ve had some good discussions through emails, where they were not subject to the pressures of their peers. They then become open minded and willing to discuss possibilities. Up until the point it becomes a public affair and their peers are looking over their shoulders. I indeed know what you mean.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Shhh! They have already made up their minds so do not confuse them with the facts.
Oh you can’t confuse them with facts. Facts go in one ear and out the other.

See my post above with the Grants own statement of interbreeding being more important than mutation by 2 to 3 magnitudes. That will go in one ear and out the other as they continue to argue against interbreeding having any effect.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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i don't know dude - they guy that wrote "All dogs came from one wolf gene." totally seems to know biology and genetics inside and out...
Maybe you should study biology sometime.

Evolution: Library: Evolution of the Dog


Not to mention that that claim is actually wrong to begin with. The Chinook breed is a result of cross between a husky and a specific dog named 'Chinook' of indeterminate origin.
Man, and I even posted the info and you still got it wrong. Sigh, I guess I included more than one sentence, so it’s understandable you got confused. I’ll condense it for you.

“The breed derives principally from one male ancestor born in 1917, named "Chinook", who was Walden's lead dog and stud. "Chinook" derived from a crossbreeding of husky stock from the Peary North Pole expedition with a large, tawny Mastiff-like male. ”

I’ll translate. Chinook was the name of the dog that was the offspring of husky stock with a Mastiff. It’s offspring were bred with various others and then back to “Chinook” to set the traits. The breed carries his name.

This simply reinforces my statement.

Error after uncorrected error is the ToE.
 
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pitabread

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Shhh! They have already made up their minds so do not confuse them with the facts.

An apt description of creationists if there ever was one. Not to mention classic projection.
 
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pitabread

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Oh you can’t confuse them with facts. Facts go in one ear and out the other.

Another apt description of creationists and more projection. Man, you guys are on point today.
 
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pitabread

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"Possibility" of what exactly?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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An apt description of creationists if there ever was one. Not to mention classic projection.
Another apt description of creationists and more projection. Man, you guys are on point today.
Says the guy that thought “Chinook was the one bred to a Husky and not the offspring of the Husky and Mastiff.

I expect that’s how you interpret most facts, wrongly.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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"Possibility" of what exactly?
That the common ancestors never existed. That the variation we see is from simple interbreeding.

Even the Grants tried to tell you this with those finches. The subject of this thread I believe.
 
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pitabread

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Says the guy that thought “Chinook was the one bred to a Husky and not the offspring of the Husky and Mastiff.

Chinook literally was the name of the dog bred with a Husky to produce the "Chinook" breed. The actual breed of the original dog named Chinook doesn't appear to be exactly known, although it did appear to be "Mastiff-like". It appears their offspring were further crossed with other dog breeds down the line.

However, you don't simply get a Chinook by breeding any old Mastiff and Husky. The actual Chinook breed has its origin in that specific dog named "Chinook", of apparently mixed ancestry.

History of Arthur Walden's Chinook Dogs

I expect that’s how you interpret most facts, wrongly.

Considering you have a history of misusing even basic biological terms on this forum, you might to reconsider throwing stones given the glass house you have built for yourself.
 
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pshun2404

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I agree! And that doesn't mean mutation does not play a role in producing variety just that it is not a major hinge pin (or THE cause) and certainly does not prove the transformations they suggest.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Your own source disagrees with you.

“On January 17, 1917, a litter of seven puppies was born on Wonalancet Farm to Walden's Greenland Husky, Ningo (a granddaughter of Polaris, Admiral Robert Peary's lead dog from his 1909 Arctic expedition); and sired by Kim, a large mixed breed dog of unknown origin that had been picked up as a stray.”

And all agree that it looked like a Mastiff.

Says the guy that wants to rewrite the dictionary when it comes to subspecies.
 
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Jimmy D

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Orangutan genome (part 1): The quest for Leakey’s ancestral great ape – Orangutan Foundation International

Sorry Pshun, I can't see how the information presented in your post conflicts with the current understanding of primate evolution. Maybe you could clarify?
 
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Jimmy D

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It's a trivial point, and has little bearing on the topic at hand, but yet again you are shown to be wrong.

Chinook Population Genetic Analysis (preliminary)
The Chinook breed was founded in 1917 from a single male dog, Chinook, and two [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es, a German Shepherd and a Belgian Shepherd.

Oh dear, maybe try a bit of research before making such assertions in the future?
 
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DogmaHunter

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"Not all events must be observed in order to be known." To stay true to that logic you should have posted a blank picture and then come to a conclusion. You refuted yourself...

You're making zero sense.

There is no fire raging in the picture.
What you see there is evidence that the fire, that is no longer raging, left behind.

From that evidence, we can conclude that it burned their at some point in the past.
We don't need to observe the actual fire.

So there you go: we do not need to observe the event of fire raging, to know that it happened.

Exactly as I stated.

Not sure what your objection is.
 
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Jimmy D

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Are you and Pshun on the same page now regarding biology? Because it doesn't seem like it.....

Pshun...
"First you did not answer my question. And no, Genetics is a very important study it proves relationship (as to similarity and even some reasons for these), we can see variance and mutation giving rise to sepeciation (variety within a particular organism), we can benefit greatly in studying many illnesses and possibly cures, and much much more, but what it does not prove is that one creature came from earlier types of creatures (like fish into amphibians, or that man is an ape)."
the-coccyx/page-8


Justa....
You see, they believe if circumstances change, then the genome knows this and mutates itself to fit the environment. Failing to see the intelligence behind the process. Not that mutations rarely ever do anything but damage the recipient. It is the act of interbreeding which brings variation into the Kind.
proving-evolution-as-just-a-theorypage-137



It seems that there is very little agreement between you regarding the mechanisms responsible for the diversity of life.
 
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